ECML v WCML (VTEC v VTWC)

Denzo · 22 May 2016

I'm going to be living in London soon and will probably do about several trips back to central Scotland for the weekend each year, longer one at christmas as well.

I'm equidistant to Glasgow and Edinburgh so don't care which one I arrive to.

Is one line typically cheaper than the other?

If prices are the same, does one line give a more pleasurable trip?

Cheers

RailUK Forums

Agent_c · 22 May 2016

Denzo said:
I'm going to be living in London soon and will probably do about several trips back to central Scotland for the weekend each year, longer one at christmas as well.

I'm equidistant to Glasgow and Edinburgh so don't care which one I arrive to.

Is one line typically cheaper than the other?

If prices are the same, does one line give a more pleasurable trip?

Cheers

First class or regular? First Class tickets if you buy them early enough are pretty reasonably priced.

VTEC has better service on a weekend, but VTWC has been trialling some changes.

Have you considered the Sleeper at all?

Gathursty · 22 May 2016

I thought Motherwell had hourly services to Carlisle/London. My mistake

Denzo · 22 May 2016

Agent_c said:
First class or regular? First Class tickets if you buy them early enough are pretty reasonably priced.

VTEC has better service on a weekend, but VTWC has been trialling some changes.

Have you considered the Sleeper at all?

Probably standard class, I also have a 16-25 rail card

Agent_c · 23 May 2016

Denzo said:
Probably standard class, I also have a 16-25 rail card

Don't rule out first. With my railcard I'm getting down for 35 and back up for 65 first class west coast.

jopsuk · 23 May 2016

if you're north of the two (eg Stirling) I'd recommend the East, as even if not a direct service changing at Waverly is less faff that than transferring from Central to Queen Street

miami · 23 May 2016

Don't forget to look at flights

Denzo · 23 May 2016

jopsuk said:
if you're north of the two (eg Stirling) I'd recommend the East, as even if not a direct service changing at Waverly is less faff that than transferring from Central to Queen Street

I'm on the main Edinburgh to Central line so Queen Street is a non-factor.

paulweaver said:
Don't forget to look at flights

Flights are probably a bit cheaper but in general I prefer using the train.

Blindtraveler · 23 May 2016

I am in Edinburgh but its been 4 years since I went to London via any other way than the WCML if going by train. I just prefer the overall experience and personally find it more reliable as well as almost always being cheeper

Denzo · 23 May 2016

Blindtraveler said:
I am in Edinburgh but its been 4 years since I went to London via any other way than the WCML if going by train. I just prefer the overall experience and personally find it more reliable as well as almost always being cheeper

Do you go direct Edinburgh to Euston or change at Glasgow?

Blindtraveler · 23 May 2016

Generally change at iether Carlisle, Warington or Crewe dependant usually on tickets. The direct edinburgh euston trains take an extra 1h20 and although a cheep as chips ticket has seen me ride all the way before I can often pay only a pound or so more and go faster.

paul1609 · 23 May 2016

Whereabouts in London are you living?

a_c_skinner · 23 May 2016

Living between (as in at either end) Darlington and Lancaster the East seems cheaper for booked ahead tickets at peak times but West is plainly better for open off peak travel.

As it is you can examine either option for each journey.

Andrew

Class 170101 · 23 May 2016

jopsuk said:
if you're north of the two (eg Stirling) I'd recommend the East, as even if not a direct service changing at Waverly is less faff that than transferring from Central to Queen Street

Currently it is possible to get a direct service from Glasgow Central to Stirling during the Queen Street Closure.

33125 · 23 May 2016

Denzo said:
I'm going to be living in London soon and will probably do about several trips back to central Scotland for the weekend each year, longer one at christmas as well.

I'm equidistant to Glasgow and Edinburgh so don't care which one I arrive to.

Is one line typically cheaper than the other?

If prices are the same, does one line give a more pleasurable trip?

Cheers

As you've said you're interested in the cheapest, I just thought that I'd let you know that you can get 2.1% cashback through Top Cashback on Virgin Trains West Coast:
* http://www.topcashback.co.uk/virgin_trains/

Alternatively, you could get 1.05% cashback when travelling with Virgin Trains East Coast (or any other operator) if you buy via EMT or TPE:
* http://www.topcashback.co.uk/east-midlands-trains/
* http://www.topcashback.co.uk/first-transpennine-express/

Note: It might take a few months for you to receive cashback, and you can't use it until you've earned at least £10 (isn't hard if you get cashback when you renew insurance, sign up to new utilities, etc.).

devon_metro · 23 May 2016

9/10 I travel on the East Coast between Edinburgh and London. The direct West Coast trains take an absolute age so I only consider them when First Class is reasonable. I typically pick up First class down to London on EC for about £35 (16-25) and will return in standard. I haven't traveled in standard on a Pendolino, but if FC was anything to go by, then they strike me as being extremely claustrophobic.

VTWC do £13 standard class singles (16-25 railcard), but these are rare. The one time I purchased one I traveled up the East Coast anyway as one of Scotland's many storms had washed the bridge foundations away!

jzw95 · 24 May 2016

I stay in Edinburgh, and while I mainly use the East Coast, over the years I've had occasion to use Virgin West Coast several times. By far I prefer Virgin East Coast. I find the Pendolinos dark, cramped, and with small windows which rarely align with the seats. The air conditioning system is also very noisy. The trains on the east coast by comparison are very open and have large windows with minimal blank space between, and plenty of tables. It's a lovely travelling environment. The catering has unfortunately declined significantly from the peak of GNER's days, but Virgin seem to be making efforts to improve it and I believe will start carrying proper coffee in the future.

As for prices, both VTWC and VTEC have low base fares in theory but it all depends on availability, so it might be worth checking both when planning a journey. In any case, this is difficult to advise on without referring to a specific journey.

One additional advantage for the east coast route is there are more services, so more flexibility in when you can travel. How much of a difference this makes will depend on the timings of the connecting ScotRail service.

Mag_seven · 24 May 2016

jzw95 said:
By far I prefer Virgin East Coast. I find the Pendolinos dark, cramped, and with small windows which rarely align with the seats. The air conditioning system is also very noisy. The trains on the east coast by comparison are very open and have large windows with minimal blank space between, and plenty of tables. It's a lovely travelling environment.

VTEC trains - nationalised industry built
VTWC trains - privatised industry built

nuff said

Agent_c · 24 May 2016

mag_seven said:
vtwc trains - privatised industry took the public industry produced design and profited from it

ftfy.

Domh245 · 25 May 2016

Mag_seven said:
VTEC trains - nationalised industry built

Ah yes, those famously nationalised companies, Metro-Cammell (ltd), who built the passenger coaches, which run on SIG (AG) bogies. The only 'nationalised' part of an IC225 set is the locomotive, built by (subcontractor) BREL to a GEC (plc) design.

Denzo · 25 May 2016

Blindtraveler said:
Generally change at iether Carlisle, Warington or Crewe dependant usually on tickets. The direct edinburgh euston trains take an extra 1h20 and although a cheep as chips ticket has seen me ride all the way before I can often pay only a pound or so more and go faster.

So wait, it can be faster to bail out of an Edinburgh-Euston service at Carlisle/Warrington/Crewe, switch to another train and still arrive at Euston earlier than the Edinburgh service you were originally on? :lol:

Ianno87 · 25 May 2016

Denzo said:
So wait, it can be faster to bail out of an Edinburgh-Euston service at Carlisle/Warrington/Crewe, switch to another train and still arrive at Euston earlier than the Edinburgh service you were originally on?

Yes, the Edinburgh-Euston services are routed on the longer/slower route through Birmingham, and arrive Euston at xx33 in even hours.

However, change at Crewe onto the Liverpool-Euston service behind (which runs non-stop from Stafford via the Trent Valley) and you'll arrive Euston about 33 minutes quicker, overtaking the service you were on as it poodles round Birmingham.

This weird situation arises as the Edinburgh-Euston was originally separate Edinburgh (or Glasgow)-Birmingham and Wolverhampton/Birmingham-Euston services. These were then joined together to improve rolling stock utilisation (and provide extra through journey opportunities whilst they were at it).

Denzo · 25 May 2016

Ianno87 said:
Yes, the Edinburgh-Euston services are routed on the longer/slower route through Birmingham, and arrive Euston at xx33 in even hours.

However, change at Crewe onto the Liverpool-Euston service behind (which runs non-stop from Stafford via the Trent Valley) and you'll arrive Euston about 33 minutes quicker, overtaking the service you were on as it poodles round Birmingham.

This weird situation arises as the Edinburgh-Euston was originally separate Edinburgh (or Glasgow)-Birmingham and Wolverhampton/Birmingham-Euston services. These were then joined together to improve rolling stock utilisation (and provide extra through journey opportunities whilst they were at it).

Ah yes, I went from Edinburgh to Birmingham last year. Went Virgin Trains on the way down and CrossCountry on the way home and Virgin was 595027345x more pleasurable.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also just seen you can get London Midland trains from Euston to Crewe for just over a fiver and the VTWC Crewe-Edinburgh for 11 quid

thenorthern · 26 May 2016

Generally I find the West Coast Main Line is normally cheaper to get to Scotland or to London, I am between both but I always use the West Coast Main Line as its cheaper for me.

ECML v WCML (VTEC v VTWC)

Member

RailUK Forums

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Forum Staff

Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member