Crun
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Will 700s eventually be used from Kings Cross to Peterborough?
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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress
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samuelmorris
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Yes to Peterborough, but from St Pancras International, not Kings Cross.
Class377/5
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The 700 will be used into Kings Cross from their introduction next year until the passenger services to the Core practically start in May 2018. IIRC the last 700s using Kings Cross should be prior to the December 2018 timetable change.
fusionblue
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I just saw a 700 (either 104 or 106) pass through Farringdon, out of service heading to Three Bridges. I was at the tube entrance so i couldnt see inside, but it took maybe one minute or less to switch from AC to DC and pull off. A big improvement compared to the 377/387s.
I imagine its actually faster than that?
I imagine its actually faster than that?
carriageline
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Seriously? You make it sound like problems (of the signalling kind) are still a daily occurrence at London Bridge....
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Class377/5
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700106 is todays test unit.
700s are built to change automatically without driver input. They already operate this way. The ballise on the track means the trains know where they are for this and it's important for ATO working that they do this. Driver can manually changeover of course.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Apologies, I wasn't aware they were bothering with that - assumed it'd be 377s from the get go. I look forward to seeing them at Kings Cross.
Kite159
Veteran Member
No point me heading to London bridge to try and get it working back towards Croydon on the 16:12 then
samuelmorris
Established Member
RTT cancellation code shows 'issue with train crew' - don't know how accurate that is of course...
No point me heading to London bridge to try and get it working back towards Croydon on the 16:12 then
Yeah not worth it, was changed to an East Croydon terminator then just cancelled.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Once the core is open, apart from when the brown stuff hits the fan will they have any diagrammed workings into Kings Cross, so as peak services?
I didn't realise they wouldn't be on the Great Northern side until next year, I know it isn't that far away but I thought they were hoping to get the 321 / 317s off lease by December. (Never believe GTR statements lol)
Class377/5
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No diagramed work, doesn't need to be. Driver just needs to sign route and your sorted.
Why would that now happen? There are 12x 317 and 13x 321 (x25 units in total) to be replaced with up to 29x 387/1. That is easy done with the 700 cascades come in now. remember to replace the whole 387/1 fleet requires just 10x 700 (in pure coaches amount or 13x 700 in 8 car releases) to replace them all.
I stupidly got involved with a Twitter conversation with a commuter yesterday, who was upset we're getting 'cast offs' (in the form of 387s) and how Great Northern is always last to get everything - and how mad it is that we have 40 year old trains to Moorgate.
I tried to explain that the new stock for Moorgate was a run-on order of these brand new trains coming, but it fell on deaf ears.
Mind you, it didn't help that the whole cause for his outburst was GTR saying to everyone that GN wasn't getting the new trains until the end of 2018 - which sounded like we won't see anything until a single day when they all magically appear!
Failed Unit
Established Member
Shows how behind the times I am, in the GN leaflet it stated that the 317s and 321s would be off lease by the end of December. (although I must admit I don't have said leaflet now so it may not have said to be replaced with what).
I was expecting them to be replaced by cascaded 365s, which makes sense if the 365s will be cascaded by the 387s. (just wasn't expecting that to happen so soon) Don't know why but I was thinking 700s on some of the London - Peterborough / Cambridge fast services to release 365s.
Wasn't expecting to see 700s in WGC anytime soon - but it would be nice to have more 365s, have a soft spot for them.
43074
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On a slight tangent, but still related, how many 365s are GN keeping post 2018? Is it still 19 or has that been revised in the recent shake up?
Skimpot flyer
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On a related note... I don't know the Class Nos of the trains involved, but when I've travelled from Clapham Junction to Willesden Junction on the West London Line, I've noticed that the London Overground trains seem to be able to 'coast' to the changeover point and raise the pantograph whilst on the move. The trains used on Southern services (which don't call at Willesden of course) come to a complete halt, the train powers-down, and then the sound of the pantograph being raised is heard before we set off to Wembley Central....
They'll be class 378s. Maybe a technical difference between the 2 trains or perhaps just a different operating procedure between LO and Southern.
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Class377/5
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Still 19 I believe.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The 377/2 can't do it on the move as try have to raise shoes before they can raise the pan or vice versa. The 387s were ordered for on the move changeovers, not sure the 377/7 can but it's operating prat ice on Southern to stop as not all trains can do it moving.
43074
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Thank you for clarifying - another question for you or anyone else who may know, is there any further indication of where the remaining 21 will end up?
Blamethrower
Member
I used to do that route, we stopped every day for a changeover apart from one where we coasted for short amount of time and then carried on.
Only happened once and we were running late (as was often the case) so I don't know if a driver just tried it once
DerekC
Established Member
700s are required by the specification to be able to change over within the nominal 45s dwell time at Farringdon or City Thameslink. They were originally specified to be capable of changeover on the move, but NR got cold feet about doing that in the Thameslink core (there are some pretty horrendous isolation problems). I think the capability is still there if needed.
swt_passenger
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I was on a 377/2 years ago that did an AC to DC changeover on the move when running late. A discussion a few months later in uk.railway, and I'm thinking it must have been way back in 2006 or 2007 or so, established that they could changeover on the move, but it was not planned for because there had always been sufficient allowance for a stationary changeover built into the WTT.
Class377/5
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No idea sorry.
Guessing he put his pan down and coasted while putting shoes down. Found this week that shoes will raise while on the move!
They automatically changeover over now in the Core while in platform but as the shoes are always down they can do it on the move.
I'm sure I've spoken to drivers who have experienced changeover on the move (as well as ATO up to 80-90mph too) at Wildenrath.
EDIT:
Rough current locations of various 700s.
002 - Three Bridges Depot (commissioning)
003 - Cricklewood
004 - Hornsey
005 - Cricklewood
006 - Cricklewood
007 - Tilgate Sidings
008 - Wildenrath
009 - Wildenrath
010 - Should be arriving this week to Three Bridges
017 - Wildenrath
Can't confirm where 011-016 are
102 - Three Bridges/Freme Park
103 - Three Bridges
104 - ?
105 - Three Bridges depot (in shed)
106 - Three Bridges Depot (commissioning)
107 - Three Bridges Depot (in service)
108 - Three Bridges Depot (in service)
109 - Three Bridges Depot (in service)
110 - Hornsey (ERTMS testing)
111 - ?
112 - Three Bridges Depot
113 - ?
114 - Three Bridges Depot (in service)
115 - Wildenrath
Do you know which 2 class 700s are moving up to Jowett Sdgs tomorrow to enter service on Monday?
Class377/5
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It will be two of the following 107/108/109/114. Don't know which two however.
Techniquest
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Not everyone around the country has been down to London yet to get started on the new order! Quite, I need the majority of the 387s. Some of us have been spreading our wings and taking in stuff around the rest of the country! There's also the fact a lot of us are waiting for them to enter squadron service before properly getting the red pen out.
That being said, I'm going to be having a go on one tomorrow morning from East Croydon to wherever takes my fancy in Zone 1. I must be mad trying to get one during peak time, but it's also a good opportunity to get ahead of Kite159 on the class
I think those who have to do every one will be less than those just wanting to try it once or twice to see what they're like though. I am not bothered by the unit number personally, and wouldn't travel in rush hour unless I needed to for work.
The Box Photter
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Be careful travelling in the rush hour. If any of the commuters sense you're not one of them, they might turn on you.
I recommend you wear a shiny polyester suit and that you carry a plastic briefcase so you can blend in.
I recommend you wear a shiny polyester suit and that you carry a plastic briefcase so you can blend in.
You jest, but try travelling in the morning rush hour with a young child. You'll be shoved all over the place by people clearly of the opinion that you shouldn't be on their train.
So it wouldn't surprise me that some people would take exception to anyone with bags.
On Thameslink I guess there's a bit more acceptance because it serves two airports, but other routes may well have a higher percentage of people that will tut and give you evils.
Best just ignore them and let them get back to Candy Crush or whatever.
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