First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

ValleyLines142 · 10 Jul 2016

37759 has just left Bath on the 178!!

RailUK Forums

TheGrandWazoo · 10 Jul 2016

DanTrainMan185 said:
37759 has just left Bath on the 178!!

37760 is on special Odd Down P&R though with 37358 and 37769
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THarris123 said:
Indeed they have, so it could be a bit more complicated.

But looking at what is in Lawrence Hill and MH, there are 34 W and 51 reg ALX400s. Lawrence Hill is getting 45 new buses (do we know if they are gas buses and have the pipes now been installed at LH?), so that's 11 midlife buses that will be thrown out of LH. The total number of 53 reg B7TLs at LH and MH are 11 (32328-30,32350/1,32355-60). Then in Bath we now have the situation where there are 9 non-DDA deckers left, to be replaced by 8 E400s. I personally think its likely that 32350/1 will head back to Bath (especially as they have FirstBath written above the door still), so it could be likely that the 51 reg deckers in Bath actually stay. 32328-30 may well head back to Hengrove, along with maybe a couple of others to replace the Tridents (32355/6?). Then 32357-60 may head elsewhere, or maybe even to Bath to replace the 51 reg deckers.

Its difficult to tell, but we can now certainly see that some cascades will go into Hengrove and that at the end of this year the oldest bit of kit there will very highly likely be 53 reg (which is pretty good).

I was thinking that we may see the E400s come up from Kernow to Weston, then the 5 Urban E400s there might move back to Hengrove and replace the Tridents? It might also move out some B7s from Weston to Wells to help with an increase in PVR there?

Think you may be overthinking things a little, trying to identify individual vehicles that may or may not be moved. Similarly, having a FirstBath fleetname probably doesn't even appear on the radar of those making allocations.

What do we know will happen? Well, not much. We know that the W reg Tridents aren't PSVAR compliant so they'll be off (and as they're the oldest fleet at HE, then the oldest of the current allocation will be 53 plates.

The W reg B7TLs are also non compliant (IIRC). There are new vehicles due so they'll wipe those out. However, what will actually appear and when, and what to replace, we will have to wait.

One little thought enters my head though..... Perhaps the preference might be to replace some of the B7Ls and retain some of the deckers?
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Private Baxter said:
Personally I wouldn't use the network map colour coding as the definitive choice, rather as a guide. That said, to me the shade of purple they have used is exactly the same as the Bath uni ones. You must have sharper eyes than me!

Having seen 37011, the colour used on those IS the same as the U1 buses in Bath.

I'm with you PB; it's difficult to say definitively but I'd venture that these are for the 17/17A. We should remember that any gas bid (if successful) will be split over a number of years so these vehicles would have 2/3 years on the 17/17A route potentially

matt_splat · 10 Jul 2016

a enviro 200 was on the 179 tonight as well

ValleyLines142 · 10 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
37760 is on special Odd Down P&R though with 37358 and 37769

Wasn't on there for long mind as it was back on the 39 in the evening, seen at Temple Meads towards Bristol at about 1945.

44526 was also on the 39 today, along with 37761, 37763 and 37767.

TheGrandWazoo · 10 Jul 2016

DanTrainMan185 said:
Wasn't on there for long mind as it was back on the 39 in the evening, seen at Temple Meads towards Bristol at about 1945.

44526 was also on the 39 today, along with 37761, 37763 and 37767.

It was on there from 0800 to 1400 - a special P&R from Odd Down to Southdown

THarris123 · 11 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
37760 is on special Odd Down P&R though with 37358 and 37769
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Think you may be overthinking things a little, trying to identify individual vehicles that may or may not be moved. Similarly, having a FirstBath fleetname probably doesn't even appear on the radar of those making allocations.

What do we know will happen? Well, not much. We know that the W reg Tridents aren't PSVAR compliant so they'll be off (and as they're the oldest fleet at HE, then the oldest of the current allocation will be 53 plates.

The W reg B7TLs are also non compliant (IIRC). There are new vehicles due so they'll wipe those out. However, what will actually appear and when, and what to replace, we will have to wait.

One little thought enters my head though..... Perhaps the preference might be to replace some of the B7Ls and retain some of the deckers?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Having seen 37011, the colour used on those IS the same as the U1 buses in Bath.

I'm with you PB; it's difficult to say definitively but I'd venture that these are for the 17/17A. We should remember that any gas bid (if successful) will be split over a number of years so these vehicles would have 2/3 years on the 17/17A route potentially

Ok i agree with this.

Some B7Ls might go, but if you look at the bid for the gas buses doesn't it say it's going to replace something like 6 B7Ls? So it maybe that some of the 45 buses will replace some. I would think it more likely though we will see something else replace the bulk of B7Ls. Aren't they used on 81/82 mostly? So maybe we'll see some Darts or maybe even some B7RLEs replace them?
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The bid actually says 52 B7TLs, 22 ADL darts SLF and 6 B7Ls.

What 22 Darts are there in Bristol to replace?

TheGrandWazoo · 11 Jul 2016

THarris123 said:
Ok i agree with this.

Some B7Ls might go, but if you look at the bid for the gas buses doesn't it say it's going to replace something like 6 B7Ls? So it maybe that some of the 45 buses will replace some. I would think it more likely though we will see something else replace the bulk of B7Ls. Aren't they used on 81/82 mostly? So maybe we'll see some Darts or maybe even some B7RLEs replace them?
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The bid actually says 52 B7TLs, 22 ADL darts SLF and 6 B7Ls.

What 22 Darts are there in Bristol to replace?

Exactly - there are only 18 Darts in Bristol at the moment. That means that things are subject to change or have already changed.

B7Ls can be found on the 81/82 but also regularly on the 77 (and still on the 2 during the day). You may see the situation of the 78/79 becoming DD operated and/or the single decked Yate services getting deckers, and the B7RLEs being cascaded to replace B7Ls.

THarris123 · 11 Jul 2016

In Bath -
44910 10
42968 14
60914 5
66336 41
37358 X39
32950 15
32284 19
32349 X39/38
66886 379
47548 178
42910 14
10176 U1
53809 179
53820 1

Travelling for the holiday I picked up 174 to Bath and then X39 to Bristol. Had the lovely 69445 and one of my favourite drivers too. 53401 also on 174 today.

freetoview33 · 11 Jul 2016

THarris123 said:
Ok i agree with this.

Some B7Ls might go, but if you look at the bid for the gas buses doesn't it say it's going to replace something like 6 B7Ls? So it maybe that some of the 45 buses will replace some. I would think it more likely though we will see something else replace the bulk of B7Ls. Aren't they used on 81/82 mostly? So maybe we'll see some Darts or maybe even some B7RLEs replace them?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The bid actually says 52 B7TLs, 22 ADL darts SLF and 6 B7Ls.

What 22 Darts are there in Bristol to replace?

My thinking is for 8/9

THarris123 · 11 Jul 2016

freetoview33 said:
My thinking is for 8/9

Yes I can really see them putting 11 year old buses on 8/9 compared to 3 year old buses!
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Following 32942 to Bristol out of service - to Hengrove maybe?

TheGrandWazoo · 11 Jul 2016

freetoview33 said:
My thinking is for 8/9

I'm sorry - not catching your drift?

Do you mean they're going to replaces Streetlites with Darts on the 8/9? Or that they're going to have deckers on the 8/9? Or something else?

Whatever the case, there aren't currently 22 Darts in Bristol to replace

THarris123 · 11 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
I'm sorry - not catching your drift?

Do you mean they're going to replaces Streetlites with Darts on the 8/9? Or that they're going to have deckers on the 8/9? Or something else?

Whatever the case, there aren't currently 22 Darts in Bristol to replace

And there would be at least 12 darts staying in Bristol anyway - 8 for 36 and 4 for 5.
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66301 is out on 1

TheGrandWazoo · 11 Jul 2016

THarris123 said:
And there would be at least 12 darts staying in Bristol anyway - 8 for 36 and 4 for 5.
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66301 is out on 1

Unless the plan would be to cascade Streetlites to oust the Darts? Also, think the 36 is 6 Darts and 2 deckers to cope with the school at Stockwood and the BCA

66301 appears quite a bit on the 1/2 oddly

Private Baxter · 11 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
Having seen 37011, the colour used on those IS the same as the U1 buses in Bath.

I'm with you PB; it's difficult to say definitively but I'd venture that these are for the 17/17A. We should remember that any gas bid (if successful) will be split over a number of years so these vehicles would have 2/3 years on the 17/17A route potentially

Ah I see. I was under the impression that new buses were coming for the 17 this year (as well as for other services), but we've had such a wealth of information like this over the past few months that it's easy to get lost in it all. In that case, I will suppose the 17 is what they're being branded for.

ooo · 11 Jul 2016

I spotted a First bus (unfortunately I didn't catch it's number) with a rear advert for Stagecoach's Falcon service. I'm guessing that they don't have much control over the adverts as advertising the competition on your own vehicles seems a bit strange.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

freetoview33 · 11 Jul 2016

ooo said:
I spotted a First bus (unfortunately I didn't catch it's number) with a rear advert for Stagecoach's Falcon service. I'm guessing that they don't have much control over the adverts as advertising the competition on your own vehicles seems a bit strange.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

The Falcon isn't really in competition with First Bus, so I don't think they would really care.

TheGrandWazoo · 11 Jul 2016

ooo said:
I spotted a First bus (unfortunately I didn't catch it's number) with a rear advert for Stagecoach's Falcon service. I'm guessing that they don't have much control over the adverts as advertising the competition on your own vehicles seems a bit strange.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

They do have the power of veto but in what way is it competition? It doesn't compete with any First service. I'd be more bothered if it advertised a car dealership or a driving school! Remember this....

https://flic.kr/p/fxMDKG

THarris123 · 11 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
They do have the power of veto but in what way is it competition? It doesn't compete with any First service. I'd be more bothered if it advertised a car dealership or a driving school! Remember this....

https://flic.kr/p/fxMDKG

I wonder what Sherrington thought when he first saw that! Obviously didn't like it as am I right in thinking it was repainted just after Sherringtons arrival?

ooo · 11 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
They do have the power of veto but in what way is it competition? It doesn't compete with any First service. I'd be more bothered if it advertised a car dealership or a driving school! Remember this....

https://flic.kr/p/fxMDKG

Good points, but it just seems slightly strange that they are carrying adverts for a company in their same industry. In terms of car adverts Faresaver are very guilty with a number of their buses carrying rear adverts for a Skoda Dealership.

TheGrandWazoo · 11 Jul 2016

THarris123 said:
I wonder what Sherrington thought when he first saw that! Obviously didn't like it as am I right in thinking it was repainted just after Sherringtons arrival?

No, was repainted well before then. Was one of the few Bath vehicles in Urban probably 2013.
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ooo said:
Good points, but it just seems slightly strange that they are carrying adverts for a company in their same industry. In terms of car adverts Faresaver are very guilty with a number of their buses carrying rear adverts for a Skoda Dealership.

Alternatively better to have people using public transport than not especially if it's non competitive

vicbury · 11 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
No, was repainted well before then. Was one of the few Bath vehicles in Urban probably 2013.
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Alternatively better to have people using public transport than not especially if it's non competitive

It was removed whilst Jeroen Weimar was in charge, he also thought it was ridiculous. I can't say much has changed at First in Bath since the arrival of Mr Sherrington, if anything the condition of vehicles has slipped..

THarris123 · 12 Jul 2016

vicbury said:
It was removed whilst Jeroen Weimar was in charge, he also thought it was ridiculous. I can't say much has changed at First in Bath since the arrival of Mr Sherrington, if anything the condition of vehicles has slipped..

And apart from the big reductions in Wiltshire services, cutbacks elsewhere, there's due to be a complete network overhaul in Bath, virtually all B7RLEs have gone from Bath, X39 now has 7 year old deckers compared to 3 year old singles, 319 has been renumbered and has deckers on use, 161 and 184 were cutback and replaced with 174 and finally in Wells 376 got deckers, i haven't really seen much has changed at Bath under Sherrington either.

TheGrandWazoo · 12 Jul 2016

vicbury said:
It was removed whilst Jeroen Weimar was in charge, he also thought it was ridiculous. I can't say much has changed at First in Bath since the arrival of Mr Sherrington, if anything the condition of vehicles has slipped..

That rings a bell that it was when Weimar was COO

As an aside, FBBs Public Transport Experience features Southern Railway's problems and the use of bus replacement on one route. One was former 62193 nicely repainted (that FBB had nicked off the BBC News website)

freetoview33 · 12 Jul 2016

Do any buses still have "attack mode" where they say in a loud American accent. This vehicle is under attack please dial 999. With a nice siren. I can remember hearing this once in Westbury village about 13 years ago on the 43B when the driver did it by accident.

THarris123 · 12 Jul 2016

freetoview33 said:
Do any buses still have "attack mode" where they say in a loud American accent. This vehicle is under attack please dial 999. With a nice siren. I can remember hearing this once in Westbury village about 13 years ago on the 43B when the driver did it by accident.

I thought most of the new vehicles have it built in.

Certainly it's gone off a few times on the Wells B7s and Streetdecks.
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VOSA registrations are going through for FSA.

Changes to Bath P&R, 1, 2, 179 and 39/X39 so far. 161 renumbered 175, with a route change.

Also changes in Bildgwater - 16 cancelled and replaced by 14. Amendment to 14/14A/15 too.

TheGrandWazoo · 12 Jul 2016

THarris123 said:
I thought most of the new vehicles have it built in.

Certainly it's gone off a few times on the Wells B7s and Streetdecks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
VOSA registrations are going through for FSA.

Changes to Bath P&R, 1, 2, 179 and 39/X39 so far. 161 renumbered 175, with a route change.

Also changes in Bildgwater - 16 cancelled and replaced by 14. Amendment to 14/14A/15 too.

So a bit of a late change in that Somerbus' 175 will actually become First 171 whilst the 161 becomes the 175

BoS 16 going to be replaced with the 14 makes sense

THarris123 · 12 Jul 2016

TheGrandWazoo said:
So a bit of a late change in that Somerbus' 175 will actually become First 171 whilst the 161 becomes the 175

BoS 16 going to be replaced with the 14 makes sense

Can't see 171 on VOSA?

Stroud Valleys · 12 Jul 2016

Does anyone in the know what the changes would be to the Bath park and ride?

My only hope is that all services, including lansdown, start and terminate as close to the bus/railway station as possible, maybe the existing 41 Odd Down park and ride starts and terminates.

matt_splat · 12 Jul 2016

Bath Norton will be the following

171 - Bath - Peasedown Circle Bath (EVERY HOUR)
172 - Bath - Farrington Gurney via Paulton (Every 30 mins)
173 - Bath - Wells (As current but extra evening busses / sundays)
174 - Bath - Wells (As current gaining some later journeys to get busses to wells and also sundays)
175 - Wells - Shepton (As current 161 but sundays replaced by 174)
178 - Radstock - Bristol ( Run by Bristol not serving tescos or the estates in keynsham)

Expect some interesting changes to the services running around keynsham - bristol also all the bath stuff is very up in the air i have been led to believe that the whole city network is being revamped and changed

TheGrandWazoo · 12 Jul 2016

Stroud Valleys said:
Does anyone in the know what the changes would be to the Bath park and ride?

My only hope is that all services, including lansdown, start and terminate as close to the bus/railway station as possible, maybe the existing 41 Odd Down park and ride starts and terminates.

I may well be wrong but I doubt we'll see extension of the P&R into the bus station/rail station area as it would require additional vehicles and make them subject to delays
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matt_splat said:
Bath Norton will be the following

171 - Bath - Peasedown Circle Bath (EVERY HOUR)
172 - Bath - Farrington Gurney via Paulton (Every 30 mins)
173 - Bath - Wells (As current but extra evening busses / sundays)
174 - Bath - Wells (As current gaining some later journeys to get busses to wells and also sundays)
175 - Wells - Shepton (As current 161 but sundays replaced by 174)
178 - Radstock - Bristol ( Run by Bristol not serving tescos or the estates in keynsham)

Expect some interesting changes to the services running around keynsham - bristol also all the bath stuff is very up in the air i have been led to believe that the whole city network is being revamped and changed

Are those confirmed changes?

I can see the logic of the additional evening and Sunday 173/4 to replace the 178s and some later journeys running through to Wells as placement journeys

The 178 not serving Tesco at Old Mills makes sense if that is left to the 172/179. Not serving Chandag is a little curious but if it's part of a general re-jig of Keynsham routes....

At least I'll be able to get a bus from Radstock to Farrington and then onto the 376....something that I've usually done with a 379 to Temple Cloud and then onto the 376. Just wonder where they might turn the 172 in Farrington or some alternating loop (Old Mills - Paulton - Farrington - Old Mills?)

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