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Route taken by trains during engineering work, Sheffield - Leeds 6/7th August.

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Mugby

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Could someone please enlighten me what's happening this weekend between Sheffield and Leeds.

Cross Country state that their trains are diverted so as not to call at Wakefield Westgate, previously this has meant a trip down the Barnsley branch but that too is closed, so how exactly is Westgate by-passed?

Northern are operating their Nottingham - Leeds service via Wakefield Westgate, if they can do this, why can't XC?
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Looking at RTT, from the south, XC diverge at Hare Park, go around the curve at the back of Kirkgate and into Leeds via Altofts. Northern appear to be running via Moorthorpe vice Barnsley into Westgate, then reversing and picking up their booked route from Kirkgate. At a guess if XC were to do that the time penalty would put their paths out of place further north / south and that could get very awkward. Northern aren't as badly affected as they only run to / from Leeds and so are relatively self-contained in that regard.
 

Mugby

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Well that's an interesting bit of line, the curve at the back of Kirkgate, never thought of that!

What I can't understand though, is why Northern will apparently be passing through Kirkgate, which is en route anyway, to go to Westgate which isn't?
 

30907

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Well that's an interesting bit of line, the curve at the back of Kirkgate, never thought of that!

What I can't understand though, is why Northern will apparently be passing through Kirkgate, which is en route anyway, to go to Westgate which isn't?

My guess is that it provides Wakefield W with a second Sheffield (and Meadowhall) train per hour, to relieve the stopper.
 

shedman

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My guess is that it provides Wakefield W with a second Sheffield (and Meadowhall) train per hour, to relieve the stopper.

And also to provide some sort of service from Westgate to Leeds?
 

anti-pacer

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My flat backs onto this line. I thought it sounded busier than normal out there.
 
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Horbury Jn - Wincobank Jn closed because three bridges are being replaced, near Woolley, Skiers Spring and Chapeltown. Also Leeds to Wakefield Westgate and Leeds to Bradford Interchange closed due to Holbeck Junction being replaced.
 

45rpm

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Why didn`t VTEC also take the route from Leeds to Hare Park Junction via Crofton? Do their drivers not have route knowledge or was it line capacity?
 

1D53

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It's quicker going via Hambleton than Turners Lane and Hare Park. Leeds drivers at VTEC sign both.
 

Class 170101

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I would say it is capacity issue via Hare Park. As XC don't sign Hambleton anymore EC probably got the short straw and had to divert via Hambleton.
 

1D53

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It's absolutely not an issue of pathing, there is lots of capacity via Hare Park. In fact via Garforth there is 8 paths an hour in each direction and Northern services had to be retimed on the Saturday to allow the VTEC through.

It's all about journey time, services were timed Leeds to Doncaster in as little as 31-32 minutes via Hambleton, XC services took that long to get between Leeds and South Kirkby.
 

Mugby

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Would one of the considerations for XC avoiding Wakefield Kirkgate be the fact that it's unstaffed?
 

MidnightFlyer

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Would one of the considerations for XC avoiding Wakefield Kirkgate be the fact that it's unstaffed?

I doubt it - like I said above XC really don't have the time to play with around Leeds - reversing at Kirkgate vice taking the curve at a wild guess would put 6-8 minutes on the journey (assuming we allow 5 for a reversal, I'm not sure how accurate that is), which stretches the already slightly extended journey times between Leeds and Sheffield further and now puts it well out of its booked path heading north out of Leeds and south out of Sheffield, as such dragging into the equation the services between Leeds and Micklefield (and potentially the ECML north of Colton), and whatever on the largely two track railway south of Sheffield.

All that said however, I doubt Kirkgate could hold a HST or doubled up Voyager, so, yes, I suppose Kirkgate itself could also be one of the factors!
 

yorkie

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Kirkgate can easy take a HST. Bailed on & off previously back in 2000.
Not sure if you can reverse in a platform that isn't fenced off that's long enough? I don't know the station well enough but the longest platform is probably not meant to be used for its full length by the looks of it...

Journey time penalty is prohibitive anyway
 

1D53

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You couldn't reverse in Kirkgate anyway, you can only access Hare Park from Platform 3 which you can't access from the Normanton direction! You'd either have to run via the curve into Westgate to reverse going back out via Sandal or call in platform 2 and then shunt out and reverse at Horbury and go back through platform 3, both are unrealistically lengthy.
 

IanXC

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I have been on a diverted CrossCountry Voyager which reversed at Kirkgate in the past. Wasn't a passenger call though.
 

TC60054

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I have been on a diverted CrossCountry Voyager which reversed at Kirkgate in the past. Wasn't a passenger call though.

Was that travelling between Sheffield & Wakefield Westgate via Barnsley though? A reversal would be required in that situation.
 

Crossover

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You couldn't reverse in Kirkgate anyway, you can only access Hare Park from Platform 3 which you can't access from the Normanton direction! You'd either have to run via the curve into Westgate to reverse going back out via Sandal or call in platform 2 and then shunt out and reverse at Horbury and go back through platform 3, both are unrealistically lengthy.

Also probably not signaled for passenger use either
 

Class 170101

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You couldn't reverse in Kirkgate anyway, you can only access Hare Park from Platform 3 which you can't access from the Normanton direction! You'd either have to run via the curve into Westgate to reverse going back out via Sandal or call in platform 2 and then shunt out and reverse at Horbury and go back through platform 3, both are unrealistically lengthy.

Also probably not signaled for passenger use either

I think Kirkgate is reversible in both Platform 3 and the Up Goole non Platform line. Hull Trains did this a couple of years ago when the route via Goole was blocked due to Hatfield Colliery and the Selby route was also closed for engineering works. Hull Trains on that occasion reversed at Kirkgate thence operated via Hensall - I think one of our board members actually did the route conducting!
 

IanXC

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I think Kirkgate is reversible in both Platform 3 and the Up Goole non Platform line. Hull Trains did this a couple of years ago when the route via Goole was blocked due to Hatfield Colliery and the Selby route was also closed for engineering works. Hull Trains on that occasion reversed at Kirkgate thence operated via Hensall - I think one of our board members actually did the route conducting!

Indeed! I was on those, on the Saturday services met at Kirkgate, one reversed in p3 and one in the line adjacent. On the Sunday the reversal was immediately past the junction allowing access to the route to Doncaster, rather than at Kirkgate.
 

1D53

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Don't get me wrong, if you have enough time to do as many reversals as you want then you could call at Wakefield. When XC have a fixed path North of Leeds and South of Moorthorpe you can't spend ages dithering, you have to take Turners Lane Curve which takes about a minute, you don't have the 10+ minutes to call at Kirkgate and then run out towards Horbury to change ends and run back through platform 3.
 
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