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Euston - Birmingham NS stock

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RichW1

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So I made a return trip to Birmingham yesterday on business. Both trains were voyagers!!!!! An electrified route using these tatty undignified things. Anyone know why? What happened to Pendolinos? (They are crap too but it's about defrees of crap and I'd prefer the Pendolino very marginally to these Voyagers).

They joined at Birmingham NS. With one half in the platform, people piled on the 5 cars. The second part joined after. It was a mess.

This did not feel like an Intercity.
 
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The Planner

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Sounds like you got the one where the Shrewsbury portion joins, or is this just another dull Voyager bashing thread.
 
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shaun

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RichW1 said:
So I made a return trip to Birmingham yesterday on business. Both trains were voyagers!!!!! An electrified route using these tatty undignified things. Anyone know why? What happened to Pendolinos? (They are crap too but it's about defrees of crap and I'd prefer the Pendolino very marginally to these Voyagers).

They joined at Birmingham NS. With one half in the platform, people piled on the 5 cars. The second part joined after. It was a mess.

This did not feel like an Intercity.
Click to expand...

Those probably would've either been Shrewsbury trains or through Euston - Glasgow/Edinburgh via NS services. The answer is there are simply not enough Pendolinos to run them all (and Shrewsbury is diesel) with the 390s being concentrated on the faster Trent Valley-routed services. VTEC also still run some HSTs on fully electrified services, so it isn't just the WCML doing it.

The Voyagers are bad Intercity trains, could really do with at least being refurbished to resemble the Meridians (sorry for the bash!).
 
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RichW1

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So I just got very unlucky then! Ouch. Never again will I take those services. That leaves the question... 140mph (no don't worry I'm not starting this again so keep reading) won't be possible if 125mph diagrams are made to go for such long stretches with a rolling stock shortage.
 
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Ianno87

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2 x Class 221 has more standard class seats than a 9 car Class 390 (and about the same as an 11 car). Just sayin'...

Plus the 221s have the all-table (Coach D when in 5 car formation).
 
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RichW1 said:
So I made a return trip to Birmingham yesterday on business. Both trains were voyagers!!!!! An electrified route using these tatty undignified things. Anyone know why? What happened to Pendolinos? (They are crap too but it's about defrees of crap and I'd prefer the Pendolino very marginally to these Voyagers).

They joined at Birmingham NS. With one half in the platform, people piled on the 5 cars. The second part joined after. It was a mess.

This did not feel like an Intercity.
Click to expand...

Bring back a rake of Mk II or Mk III coaches hauled by a Class 81-87 or 90. Sorry Mr Branson but those of us who remember the good times cannot accept this plastic rubbish as an improvement. :(
 
fishquinn

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Mag_seven said:
Bring back a rake of Mk II or Mk III coaches hauled by a Class 81-87 or 90. Sorry Mr Branson but those of us who remember the good times cannot accept this plastic rubbish as an improvement. :(
Click to expand...
All well said except one small part. I've crossed that out in the quote ;)
 
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route101

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Ianno87 said:
2 x Class 221 has more standard class seats than a 9 car Class 390 (and about the same as an 11 car). Just sayin'...

Plus the 221s have the all-table (Coach D when in 5 car formation).
Click to expand...

I recall going on a voyager and sitting in coach D , is that an ex first class coach or something? I usually travel along so not a big fan of a table of 4 (ok when its quiet but i find it awkward facing someone )
 
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The Planner

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Mag_seven said:
Bring back a rake of Mk II or Mk III coaches hauled by a Class 81-87 or 90. Sorry Mr Branson but those of us who remember the good times cannot accept this plastic rubbish as an improvement. :(
Click to expand...

Apart from the speed increase and massive growth in people using it no improvement at all....
 
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You also get Voyagers on Euston-New St shuttles. It's just optimal use of stock, that's all, as there aren't enough Pendolinos to use on all services. The rejig made a lot of sense and has reduced overcrowding north of Crewe on Scottish services, as well as adding direct journey opportunities. Good all round.

The data on RTT as to which is which is reasonably reliable in this case if you want to avoid Voyagers.
 
Harbornite

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As has been said here, the majority of VTWC services via Birmingham are operated by class 390s, with 221s doing some Edinburgh/Glasgow trains and all services to Shrewsbury.
 
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swt class 450

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I would personally recommend taking London Midland (350) or Chiltern Railways (165/168/172) in the future than you can avoid the 220/221/390 altogether.
 
NSE

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Too many people on here sit with their rose tinted specs, moping after MK3's. I'm not saying as enthusiasts we shouldn't fondly remember the old stock we loved so much that has now gone.

But, the railways have a purpose.

The Pendo is modern stock designed to tilt to lower journey times. Since the inception the usage has increased, as has safety. And yet all people do on here is moan. Rolling stock is just following the whole way our society is drifting, with everything designed for speed, stack 'em up, cram 'em on, do everything as conveniently as possible and shift in bulk'. Not saying thats wrong or right, its just the way it is.
The London Overground 378 is a perfect example. No latitudinal seating, just longitude, for mostly standing room, cause that is what is needed.

Sure, the Voyagers are too short. That much is evident. But I really don't find the under floor engines that bad, or the seats too uncomfortable. Their purpose is to move people around, not host rose tinted gatherings for enthusiasts to dream about the days of yore.
 
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RichW1

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How do I get on the Chiltern Mainline with mark 3's? I tried twice to be honest in the past and could only take a turbostart type unit that called itself 'Mainline' too. It was not clear to me when the mark 3's run. Peak times only?

With the Voyagers and Pendolino's, it isn't rose tinted specs so much. With new stock, they should not be noiser than the old stock. From banging sounds under the carriage, rattling blinds and rattling plastic elsewhere, not to mention the whining sound from outside, they are not as good as tj stock they replaced. That's my problem with them. Like you say, pack them on, though the engineering in terms of sound and comfort is worse than anything from the 1980's on Intercity. Speed is a bit of a joke though. 125mph after 3 failed attempts at 140mph is embarrassing, and over 4 hours to Edinburgh from London for the distance is nothing to proud of. Trains used to run faster than now in the 1970's and 80's as even hst drivers will testify!
 
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PHILIPE

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RichW1 said:
How do I get on the Chiltern Mainline with mark 3's? I tried twice to be honest in the past and could only take a turbostart type unit that called itself 'Mainline' too. It was not clear to me when the mark 3's run. Peak times only?
Click to expand...

Have a look at this thread above where you will see Chiltern LHCS Diagrams.
Don't know what this has got to do with Euston to New St stock though.

Frequently Requested Diagrams Thread'
 
NSE

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RichW1 said:
How do I get on the Chiltern Mainline with mark 3's? I tried twice to be honest in the past and could only take a turbostart type unit that called itself 'Mainline' too. It was not clear to me when the mark 3's run. Peak times only?
Click to expand...

In the timetable look for the ones which have 'MS' at the top of the column. Stands for Mainline Silver, and is the one which is hauled.
 
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NSE said:
Sure, the Voyagers are too short. That much is evident. But I really don't find the under floor engines that bad, or the seats too uncomfortable. Their purpose is to move people around, not host rose tinted gatherings for enthusiasts to dream about the days of yore.
Click to expand...

I generally don't find Voyager engines too noisy. But I took a Meridian earlier on, and the racket was unbelievable. It was also tatty and damaged inside (even in 1st) compared with the Voyagers, and had three fogged window panels on the same coach. Very un-Stagey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
RichW1 said:
How do I get on the Chiltern Mainline with mark 3's? I tried twice to be honest in the past and could only take a turbostart type unit that called itself 'Mainline' too. It was not clear to me when the mark 3's run. Peak times only?
Click to expand...

They are highlighted in the timetable as "Mainline Silver" trains (MS).
 
NSE

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Neil Williams said:
I generally don't find Voyager engines too noisy. But I took a Meridian earlier on, and the racket was unbelievable. It was also tatty and damaged inside (even in 1st) compared with the Voyagers, and had three fogged window panels on the same coach. Very un-Stagey.
Click to expand...

Shame it looked a bit scrappy, guess thats down to the individual maintenance I suppose. I've only been on Meridians three times, so I'm not that well experienced on them, but I seem to recall I thought they were ok.
 
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NSE said:
Shame it looked a bit scrappy, guess thats down to the individual maintenance I suppose. I've only been on Meridians three times, so I'm not that well experienced on them, but I seem to recall I thought they were ok.
Click to expand...

They usually look well presented, but this one was extremely tatty and un-cared-for. It was also mucky on the outside.
 
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Chrism20

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RichW1 said:
So I made a return trip to Birmingham yesterday on business. Both trains were voyagers!!!!! An electrified route using these tatty undignified things. Anyone know why? What happened to Pendolinos? (They are crap too but it's about defrees of crap and I'd prefer the Pendolino very marginally to these Voyagers).

They joined at Birmingham NS. With one half in the platform, people piled on the 5 cars. The second part joined after. It was a mess.

This did not feel like an Intercity.
Click to expand...

Voyager diagrams for last year from the allocations thread, I don't think things have changed much if at all.

I think the others have covered everything else.
 
MK Tom

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Amusing to see someone suggesting London Midland as an alternative. Two hours on a Voyager seems infinitely preferable to 3-4 hours on a 350/2.

The Chiltern LHCS is the most comfortable offering between Birmingham and London by far. It's not nostalgia so much as just comfortable seating and smoothness. But Pendolinos and Voyagers definitely deliver an intercity journey experience for me. I find Voyager seating more comfortable than the Pendolinos mainly because I don't have to awkwardly rest my arm on the window ledge.
 
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