Manchester - Liverpool Electrification

Starmill · 24 Aug 2016

Some days I'm still surprised this part of the project is actually finished. I know it has been years but all the same it feels like an achievement and I'm proud to have observed a change that will bring benefits for many years to come.

As for things that are not quite finished, I remember reading towards the end of 2015 that the power supply had not all been installed - or that there was some problem or doubt about it's condition. Or was that at the end of 2014? Presumably there aren't going to be any issues with the power supply taking more EMUs in the future?

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LNW-GW Joint · 24 Aug 2016

Starmill said:
Some days I'm still surprised this part of the project is actually finished. I know it has been years but all the same it feels like an achievement and I'm proud to have observed a change that will bring benefits for many years to come.

As for things that are not quite finished, I remember reading towards the end of 2015 that the power supply had not all been installed - or that there was some problem or doubt about it's condition. Or was that at the end of 2014? Presumably there aren't going to be any issues with the power supply taking more EMUs in the future?

I think you might mean the Autotransformer Feed (ATF), which was not finished when electric trains started running between Liverpool and Manchester.
Installation is now complete, but I don't know if it is in use.
Traffic levels are nothing like what is needed to demand ATF, but maybe there are reliability gains we don't see.

The main ATF project is on the WCML, and I am continually surprised how many gaps there still are in the installation.
I'm not sure if any of it is in operation yet.
Some of the ATF planning was based on a large increase in electric heavy freight, which seems as far away as ever.
ATF has been cancelled north of Carlisle as a result.
It is being installed on the GW main line.

LDECRexile · 24 Aug 2016

Billyblue said:
Huyton 4th Track

Signs have gone up at Huyton Hey Car Park notifying closure from Tuesday 6 Sept until May 2017 to facilitate the installation of the missing link!

Apologies for the lack of a photo of the notice. I didn't have my phone on me!!

Yippee!

I must dust the cobwebs off my camera....

Whistler40145 · 24 Aug 2016

Good grief, I can't believe it.

Philip Phlopp · 24 Aug 2016

TimSYoung40145 said:
Good grief, I can't believe it.

The schedule has always had the Transport and Works Act Order dependent works due for completion late in 2017.

childwallblues · 25 Aug 2016

It is great news.

SteveRainhill · 25 Aug 2016

Also not quite finished are the footbridges at Rainhill Station. According to a letter from NR to local residents, the metal grilles that replaced the temporary plywood and scaffolding are themselves being replaced by clear plastic panels. Work is now underway.

Personally I thought the painted metal looked fine.

Billyblue · 25 Aug 2016

Sorry it's not the best of attachments.

For anyone not familiar with the area the car park is immediately adjacent to the track just before Huyton Junction and the bridge over Huyton Hey Road. Next to the car park is the bus station, the Telephone Exchange and then Huyton Station itself. The 4th track will be laid on a strip of land currently occupied by the Exchange and the bus station . From memory I think the car park will be used as a works site.

As a lay person, 8 months seems quite a long time for an apparently small job although I do realise that the junction, itself, will have to be replaced/relaid but I stand to be corrected (as I'm sure I will be lol).

childwallblues · 26 Aug 2016

Billyblue said:
View attachment 28127

Sorry it's not the best of attachments.

For anyone not familiar with the area the car park is immediately adjacent to the track just before Huyton Junction and the bridge over Huyton Hey Road. Next to the car park is the bus station, the Telephone Exchange and then Huyton Station itself. The 4th track will be laid on a strip of land currently occupied by the Exchange and the bus station . From memory I think the car park will be used as a works site.

As a lay person, 8 months seems quite a long time for an apparently small job although I do realise that the junction, itself, will have to be replaced/relaid but I stand to be corrected (as I'm sure I will be lol).

You would have thought that NR would have made provision just to put the fourth track in rather than having to replace the junction.

LNW-GW Joint · 26 Aug 2016

childwallblues said:
You would have thought that NR would have made provision just to put the fourth track in rather than having to replace the junction.

I don't think it's complete renewal, just the routes leading towards Wigan.
The signalling will have to change too, as there's no junction indicator for the 4th track approaching Roby Jn.

8A Rail · 26 Aug 2016

LNW-GW Joint said:
I don't think it's complete renewal, just the routes leading towards Wigan.
The signalling will have to change too, as there's no junction indicator for the 4th track approaching Roby Jn.

Well here is the copy of the original planned layout - http://moderngov.merseytravel.uk.ne...Roby and Huyton stations expansion enc. 1.pdf and is more or less correct. So the fourth track and extra cross over fits into the present layout without actually altering it in any major way.

The extra land required is not for the fourth track as such, as that could be laid within existing parameters BUT it is the additional infrastructure that goes with it that needs the extra land which I suspect will include new / replacement masts, drainage, cables etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

SteveRainhill said:
Also not quite finished are the footbridges at Rainhill Station. According to a letter from NR to local residents, the metal grilles that replaced the temporary plywood and scaffolding are themselves being replaced by clear plastic panels. Work is now underway.

Personally I thought the painted metal looked fine.

Currently the station footbridge is temporary closed while works are continuing. People using the station, must use the east end footbridge to cross the line.

Although the metal plates look fine, they probably dont conform to the Grade 2 listening of the station infrastructure in visual way. In other words they detract from the original ironwork etc. So to make them "clear panels" then overcomes that problem but still serves as a barrier to the near by wires.

LDECRexile · 1 Sep 2016

Paul Gaskell has kindly sent some shots of bridge parapet work in St Helens and Lea Green.

I've added them to his album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

and to the Combined Volume here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157648494725811

Thank you Paul

Ploughman · 1 Sep 2016

I should know the answer to this but.
Is the hole in the parapet blockwork made use of for anything or is it just a weight saving measure?

LDECRexile · 1 Sep 2016

Further to my post 5412, above, Paul has kindly pointed out that the "earlier photos" referred to in the Lea Green shots can be seen in the 5692 series.

He also commented:

"It isn’t clear if they are replacing the majority of the coping; certainly they’ve also taken the tops off some of the intermediate pillars – strange !"

Thanks once again Paul

PDG1949 · 2 Sep 2016

Ploughman said:
I should know the answer to this but.
Is the hole in the parapet blockwork made use of for anything or is it just a weight saving measure?

A very interesting question. The initial answer would probably be to save weight - however these days when replacing bridges substantial opportunities are taken to accommodate essential local amenities, such as Water, Gas, Electricity Telephone and Fibre-Optic Telecomms Cables. Often today these are accommodated by circular lined tunnels in the new concrete floors of such bridges; however similar circular tunnels in new coping stones could offer another such opportunity - provided the coping run was total.

Sox · 2 Sep 2016

Re use for services, looks like the coping pins would extend into the circular void though?

edwin_m · 2 Sep 2016

The "holes" appear to be lined with some sort of plastic as cable ducts often are, but I guess this might just be the former that allows them to make the hole in the first place. Another reason might be to allow safe lifting using a HIAB or similar - put a rope through the hole.

LNW-GW Joint · 14 Sep 2016

A work compound seems to have appeared near Huyton Jn, to the east of the bus station.
The occupants of the strip required for the 4th track are still very much operating normally.
The BT building is still very busy, with Openreach vehicles parked right up to the railway fence.

At Lime St, the new gates are now installed for P1-6, but are still in their plastic wrappers.
They look like the ones installed recently at Manchester Victoria.

It was a day to regret there is no air conditioning in 319s...

Billyblue · 16 Sep 2016

LNW-GW Joint said:
A work compound seems to have appeared near Huyton Jn, to the east of the bus station.
The occupants of the strip required for the 4th track are still very much operating normally.
The BT building is still very busy, with Openreach vehicles parked right up to the railway fence.

At Lime St, the new gates are now installed for P1-6, but are still in their plastic wrappers.
They look like the ones installed recently at Manchester Victoria.

It was a day to regret there is no air conditioning in 319s...

This is the compound I mentioned, recently. The Huyton Hey Road car park was closed on 6 Sept and since then the area has been fenced off and the work huts placed in situ.
Some of the BT car park will be taken but they also have a car park at the front of the building so the overall effect should be minimal.
The bus station will also lose a strip and the liklihood is that the central reservation will be narrowed to compensate. Currently, the road near the railway wall is only used by a couple of parked up buses, at most. The bus station is not actually a terminus. All buses call in and depart,immediately. Only one, or two, park up; usually local community buses that are a little early.
Once again, apologies for the poor quality of the photos!

Wavertreelad · 16 Sep 2016

Work is scheduled to take place on Rathbone Road bridge adjacent to Wavertree Technology Park station. It seems the bridge is weak and could not support the additional brickwork, so an alternative design has been adopted by Network Rail. The application for planning permission is available on this link.

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/D...rview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1009520

8A Rail · 16 Sep 2016

Wavertreelad said:
Work is scheduled to take place on Rathbone Road bridge adjacent to Wavertree Technology Park station. It seems the bridge is weak and could not support the additional brickwork, so an alternative design has been adopted by Network Rail. The application for planning permission is available on this link.

http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/D...rview.aspx?type=MVMPRD_DC_PLANAPP&key=1009520

The bridge cannot take additional weight of the proposed wall and new coping stones, so NR have decided to wish to use lighter materials to the same design and same finishing result, otherwise the bridge is fine to continue to allow buses, artics etc to travel over it. What I cannot get my head around, is why they wish to do it in the first place, as it is a high wall with the existing coping stones. In other words you need a ladder of some sort to see over it let alone thinking of doing any stupid! Sorry to say this H&S gone way over the top at un-necessary cost too!

snowball · 17 Sep 2016

8A Rail said:
The bridge cannot take additional weight of the proposed wall and new coping stones, so NR have decided to wish to use lighter materials to the same design and same finishing result, otherwise the bridge is fine to continue to allow buses, artics etc to travel over it. What I cannot get my head around, is why they wish to do it in the first place, as it is a high wall with the existing coping stones. In other words you need a ladder of some sort to see over it let alone thinking of doing any stupid! Sorry to say this H&S gone way over the top at un-necessary cost too!

Perhaps it's the new regulations that have been discussed in the Blackpool-Manchester and Scottish Electrification threads and a bit in the GWR thread.

Wavertreelad · 17 Sep 2016

8A Rail said:
The bridge cannot take additional weight of the proposed wall and new coping stones, so NR have decided to wish to use lighter materials to the same design and same finishing result, otherwise the bridge is fine to continue to allow buses, artics etc to travel over it. What I cannot get my head around, is why they wish to do it in the first place, as it is a high wall with the existing coping stones. In other words you need a ladder of some sort to see over it let alone thinking of doing any stupid! Sorry to say this H&S gone way over the top at un-necessary cost too!

The deck of the bridge was repaired a few years ago which is when the current high curb stones and railings were installed presumably to prevent vehicles crashing into the walls of the bridge which now seem to be the weak point.

I'm not sure but I'm wondering if the original bridge was a much smaller construction spanning the current running lines and the lifted fast lines on the south side of the cutting. I vaguely remember seeing an old map from the 1800's that showed Rathbone Road as what appeared to be a single lane. It was certainly narrower than the present day on the north side of the bridge and further down near Ventnor Road by the mobility centre until the late 1960's when the lodge on the corner was demolished. It should also be considered that until the late 1920's the immediate area south of the cutting were the current Sandown Park residential housing development is, was parkland accessed through gates at the bottom of Shanklin and Ventnor Road.

I suspect when Olive Mount Cutting was widened and the bank from Olive Mount Junction was built the bridge was modified to add the extra span which is a different design to the original spans. If you look at the bridge from station platform, the arch over the running tracks is much narrower than the bridge suggesting perhaps that the original deck has been extended in the past.

As for the need to lift the height of the parapet, I took this image of the last steam train through the cutting as a young 15 year old, without the aid of any ladders as from the north side it was possible to peek over the top of the parapet quiet easily.

https://flic.kr/p/LrqAfJ

And more recently in 2014 as the wires went up.

https://flic.kr/p/LmuHmH

https://flic.kr/p/MbuKvH

https://flic.kr/p/MbuKvn

As for the H&S factor, it should have been done years ago! I can remember as a youngster looking out of the bedroom window and watching endless number of idiots of all ages walking across the parapets on both sides of the road. I've never heard or seen anybody fall off, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn if somebody had.

8A Rail · 17 Sep 2016

snowball said:
Perhaps it's the new regulations that have been discussed in the Blackpool-Manchester and Scottish Electrification threads and a bit in the GWR thread.

Thanks but somehow I am not going to look through 200+ pages on two of the threads quoted along with 60+ pages on the other. I give it a miss in the circumstances.

LNW-GW Joint · 17 Sep 2016

Wavertreelad said:
As for the need to lift the height of the parapet, I took this image of the last steam train through the cutting as a young 15 year old, without the aid of any ladders as from the north side it was possible to peek over the top of the parapet quiet easily.
https://flic.kr/p/LrqAfJ

At least they removed the kink in the lines west of Olive Mount Jn when the route was reduced to 2 tracks.
It's very pronounced in the earlier photo.
They were the Slow lines then of course.

snowball · 17 Sep 2016

8A Rail said:
Thanks but somehow I am not going to look through 200+ pages on two of the threads quoted along with 60+ pages on the other. I give it a miss in the circumstances.

I wasn't suggesting you should! But the discussion I was thinking of is fairly recent and will probably be prominent in the memory of anyone who's been regularly following either the Blackpool-Manchester thread or the Scottish electrification thread. That's because of the suggestions of the need for extra major bridge alterations at a late stage, with consequent effects on timescales and costs, and suggestions (including by the Scottish transport minister) that NR failed to take account in its designs of new regulations already in the pipeline.

The relevant discussion on the B-M thread starts on page 189.

Billyblue · 20 Sep 2016

Billyblue said:
This is the compound I mentioned, recently. The Huyton Hey Road car park was closed on 6 Sept and since then the area has been fenced off and the work huts placed in situ.
Some of the BT car park will be taken but they also have a car park at the front of the building so the overall effect should be minimal.
The bus station will also lose a strip and the liklihood is that the central reservation will be narrowed to compensate. Currently, the road near the railway wall is only used by a couple of parked up buses, at most. The bus station is not actually a terminus. All buses call in and depart,immediately. Only one, or two, park up; usually local community buses that are a little early.
Once again, apologies for the poor quality of the photos!

Local residents have received a letter re the 4th Track Works. As the crow flies I live about 150 yards away from the new compound so I'll be able to keep tabs on progress.
There'll be an Open Forum at The Venue, (formerly The Huyton Suite) Civic Way, Poplar Bank,Huyton. L36 9GD. (Located near the Asda petrol station on Archway Road). 4pm -7pm Thursday 29 Sept.
The letter contains full details of the works involved. (Sorry it's sideways on. PC problems,tonight!)

Phil. · 20 Sep 2016

boing_uk said:
Is it just me or do those structures look slightly over-engineered?

]]

Over-engineered stuff doesn't get blown down.

snowball · 20 Sep 2016

Phil. said:
]]

Over-engineered stuff doesn't get blown down.

That's a 4.5-year-old post you've just replied to!

Signalmans Eye · 24 Sep 2016

new signals between Eccles and ordsall lane have appeared recently not in use at present covered with X(white)any info

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