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Appropriate ticket not available from station

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mad_rich

mad_rich

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Hi folks,

I'm traveling from Kentish Town to Gatwick Airport right now (Tuesday 1440).

The ticket I wanted was an Anytime Day Single (Not Gatwick Express) which is£13.00 with a network railcard. No ticket office at KTN, just TFL machines. They offer railcard discounts, but for some reason the Network Railcard option is greyed out. No reason why it shouldn't be available?!

The TFL helper couldn't do anything, so I've ended up with a Day Single route Not Underground, for £14.60. Which I can't find on BR Fares, incidentally.

Any way to get the £1.60 back? It's not a lot, but it's the principle, dammit. (And the knowledge for the future.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Bugger. Just seen that it would have only been £8 on contactless. I wish she'd mentioned that...
 
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AlterEgo

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A TVM is not an impartial retailing outlet so - unfortunately - the TOC cannot be *compelled* to offer you the cheapest available ticket in this situation.

I would complain about the booking office, though. They really ought to have advised on contactless.
 
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miami

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If there's no facility to sell you the ticket can't you board and buy it on the train?
 
najaB

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paulweaver said:
If there's no facility to sell you the ticket can't you board and buy it on the train?
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It is a potential grey area. In the general case - rather than this specific case - if there are ticket facilities that can sell you *a* ticket but not the one you want, you are supposed to buy a ticket to cover part of your journey and then exchange it for the ticket you need when it is possible (see Condition 3 of the NRCoC).

In practice, some forum members - including Starmill in one notable example - have had varying levels of difficulty in getting ticket offices to honour Condition 3.
 
Haywain

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It's not clear what ticket you were sold, as there are no tickets routed 'Not Underground' from Kentish Town to Gatwick Airport. I think it would be worth complaining to TfL about the failures of their machines (after all, it could be a lot more than £1.60), and copying Thameslink in so that they are aware of the incorrect range of tickets being sold.
 
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philthetube

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This is a constant problem on the underground, anyone starting a journey with any underground ticket from any underground station, be it travelcard, capped pay as you go, freedom pass or staff travel is unable to buy a suitable ticket for a journey which ends up on a network rail service outside the zones. There is no suitable ticket available to buy from there machines to present to a toc as part payment.

For example travelling from West Ham to Southend there is no opportunity to buy a ticket using a freedom pass until arriving at Southend unless you get off the train you board at West Ham when you arrive at Upminster and catch the one half an hour later having bought a ticket at Upminster.

Any ideas on the legal position?
 
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319321

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I would guess that you buy a ticket from West Ham to Barking, then present your valid ticket at Southend Central station and request a new ticket under Condition 3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

Although the purchase of the ticket from West Ham to Barking may seem unneccessary because you hold a freedom pass, the wording of Condition 3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage requires you buy a ticket in order to benefit from the protection that Condition 3 offers:

National Rail Condition of Carriage 3 said:
...you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. You must then, as soon as is reasonably practicable, buy an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these circumstances, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had bought a ticket immediately before your journey. The price you will have to pay will be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to Travel.
Click to expand...
 
MikeWh

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philthetube said:
This is a constant problem on the underground, anyone starting a journey with any underground ticket from any underground station, be it travelcard, capped pay as you go, freedom pass or staff travel is unable to buy a suitable ticket for a journey which ends up on a network rail service outside the zones. There is no suitable ticket available to buy from there machines to present to a toc as part payment.

Any ideas on the legal position?
Click to expand...

Capped pay as you go is not a ticket. It is a separate product. It is NOT the same as a day travelcard for the zones capped at. There is no entitlement to a boundary zone ticket. You must continue to touch out and in on every journey.
 
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philthetube

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319321 said:
I would guess that you buy a ticket from West Ham to Barking, then present your valid ticket at Southend Central station and request a new ticket under Condition 3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

Although the purchase of the ticket from West Ham to Barking may seem unneccessary because you hold a freedom pass, the wording of Condition 3 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage requires you buy a ticket in order to benefit from the protection that Condition 3 offers:
Click to expand...

As London underground is not a toc I would not expect expect a London underground ticket have any value on a national rail service or to be honoured by a toc.

This is a frequent problem, I lead for a walking group and frequently half the group do not have tickets when arriving at a destination. Providing the destination is staffed there has never been never a problem buying tickets at the other end, and there would be no financial advantage in avoiding payment as there is so little difference in single and day return fares.

I will ask the next time I am at an appropriate ticket office and find out what the score is.

Point accepted about payg
 
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AlterEgo

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philthetube said:
As London underground is not a toc I would not expect expect a London underground ticket have any value on a national rail service or to be honoured by a toc.

This is a frequent problem, I lead for a walking group and frequently half the group do not have tickets when arriving at a destination. Providing the destination is staffed there has never been never a problem buying tickets at the other end, and there would be no financial advantage in avoiding payment as there is so little difference in single and day return fares.

I will ask the next time I am at an appropriate ticket office and find out what the score is.

Point accepted about payg
Click to expand...

London Underground is a sort of pseudo-TOC, but they have their own Conditions of Carriage.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tocs_maps/tocs/TrainOperators.aspx

(NRE, how definitive, eh?)
 
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Shempz

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Haywain said:
It's not clear what ticket you were sold, as there are no tickets routed 'Not Underground' from Kentish Town to Gatwick Airport. I think it would be worth complaining to TfL about the failures of their machines (after all, it could be a lot more than £1.60), and copying Thameslink in so that they are aware of the incorrect range of tickets being sold.
Click to expand...


Doesn't surprise me at all with regards to TfL, I remember a few years back at Shepherd's Bush Overground station it would not even give Gold Card Discount on the TVM. Absolute joke.
 
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