35 miles of sidings required for redundant stock

Scott M · 8 Sep 2016

Will feel like the end of an era when pacers and HSTs are scrapped.

Considering they like shoveling the used up crap to us up north, how about we get some good stuff for once - I envisage the following formation on northern lines:

HST - Mk4 - DVT

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Xenophon PCDGS · 8 Sep 2016

NorthernSpirit said:
I'm sure there are loads of lines that are out of use such as Immingham or that line which comes out at Neville Hill TMD. If there's space the Portishead branch could see trains again - although for storage only.

Did I read somewhere that the Portishead branch may be re-opening by late 2019, with stations at Pill and Portishead?

507021 · 8 Sep 2016

Lankyline said:
Class 507/508 EMUs,

I don't think the Class 507/508 fleet will be replaced by 2019, I think the early 2020s is more likely.

Harbornite · 8 Sep 2016

Scott M said:
Will feel like the end of an era when pacers and HSTs are scrapped.

Considering they like shoveling the used up crap to us up north, how about we get some good stuff for once - I envisage the following formation on northern lines:

HST - Mk4 - DVT

That's true, if we ignore the Class 333s and the 195s and 331s that have just been ordered. Also let's not forget TPE which has a modern fleet and has ordered plenty more new stock. It's not all bad up North!

Paul Sidorczuk said:
Did I read somewhere that the Portishead branch may be re-opening by late 2019, with stations at Pill and Portishead?

Yes.

A public consultation into plans to reopen a Bristol railway line has begun.
The Portishead branch line shut in 1964 but is now part of the MetroWest Phase 1 project which aims to reopen the line to passenger services by 2019.
Work will involve opening a new station in Portishead, reopening Pill station, building new footbridges and doubling part of the track.
A six week consultation will run until 3 August.
When complete the line will link Portishead with Bristol Temple Meads and the Severn Beach Line.
Nigel Ashton, leader of North Somerset Council, said it was a "fantastic opportunity".
"I've been hearing about [the plans] for 25 years... but now I really do think that we're there, and we've got the plans for the station so it's getting quite exciting.
"It'll make a huge difference to businesses and work travel, and to social life in Portishead."
The reopening the Portishead branch line is part of a wider £100m scheme investing in local rail projects by West of England councils.
It is not yet known which company will run trains on the line. First Great Western's current franchise is due to end in 2019.
Share this story About sharing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-33221305

That article is from June 2015.

Chris125 · 8 Sep 2016

Presumably a similar situation to when we had the Mk1 EMU fleets replaced post-privitisation - IIRC much use was made of military establishments like Pig's Bay near Shoeburyness which have plenty of secure storage, so they'd seem an obvious solution again if still usable.

Darren R · 8 Sep 2016

Chris125 said:
Presumably a similar situation to when we had the Mk1 EMU fleets replaced post-privitisation - IIRC much use was made of military establishments like Pig's Bay near Shoeburyness which have plenty of secure storage, so they'd seem an obvious solution again if still usable.

When I lived near Shoeburyness around that time, I was told that the military also used the rolling stock for target practice, using shells large enough to be heard for many miles.

Who amongst us wouldn't want to see a Pacer being disposed of in such a way? :lol:

61653 HTAFC · 8 Sep 2016

Chris125 said:
Presumably a similar situation to when we had the Mk1 EMU fleets replaced post-privitisation - IIRC much use was made of military establishments like Pig's Bay near Shoeburyness which have plenty of secure storage, so they'd seem an obvious solution again if still usable.

Pigs to Pig's Bay? :idea:

mirodo · 9 Sep 2016

61653 HTAFC said:
Pigs to Pig's Bay?

Are you Havana laugh?

Baxenden Bank · 9 Sep 2016

Darren R said:
When I lived near Shoeburyness around that time, I was told that the military also used the rolling stock for target practice, using shells large enough to be heard for many miles.

Who amongst us wouldn't want to see a Pacer being disposed of in such a way?

Or pay good money to press the fire button. Like paintball but with real shells! Or hand held rocket launchers. Ideal market for 'team building' courses for long suffering Northern commuters. I sense a business opportunity.

duffield · 9 Sep 2016

Scott M said:
I envisage the following formation on northern lines:

HST - Mk4 - DVT

I realize this isn't a serious proposal but I'm sure it's been pointed out before on this site that MK4 coaches and HSTs are not electrically compatible.

Also, don't forget that some HSTs (with modernized MK3 coaches) will live on in Scotland for many years - that's a definite plan.

greatkingrat · 9 Sep 2016

Chris125 said:
Presumably a similar situation to when we had the Mk1 EMU fleets replaced post-privitisation - IIRC much use was made of military establishments like Pig's Bay near Shoeburyness which have plenty of secure storage, so they'd seem an obvious solution again if still usable.

Sorry, no pacers allowed in the South East!

61653 HTAFC · 9 Sep 2016

mirodo said:
Are you Havana laugh?

No, I'm Ché- rious...

ainsworth74 · 9 Sep 2016

Okay I think that's enough puns thank you

L&Y Robert · 9 Sep 2016

Is there not a body of enthusiasts who feel the need to preserve particular items of rolling stock, same as there is for engines?

61653 HTAFC · 9 Sep 2016

L&Y Robert said:
Is there not a body of enthusiasts who feel the need to preserve particular items of rolling stock, same as there is for engines?

There is (see the Pacer Preservation Society!) but there isn't a bottomless pit of money to throw at it, and there's clearly less enthusiasm for saving a 321 than there is for a Deltic or for saving Flying Scotsman (again!).

Electric units and locos are difficult because there's no preserved electrified lines, so realistically the best case scenario is that a driving car might be stuffed and mounted at Shildon.

L&Y Robert · 9 Sep 2016

L&Y Robert said:
Is there not a body of enthusiasts who feel the need to preserve particular items of rolling stock, same as there is for engines?

I found this in Railtours & Preservation section
Topic "Ordinary passengers using heritage railways as normal transport" post 23:

"Yes that is a good idea about using newer DMUs when they get withdrawn. Thinking about it the 142 / 143 / 144 / 150 / 153 / 155 / 156 / 158 / 159 are all very likely to get withdrawn within the next five to ten years. They could be very useful for providing services aimed at ordinary passengers and commuters and shoppers.

It would also be great to have some sprinters and pacers in presevation (at the moment 141 103 / 141 108 / 141 113 are the only preserved second generation DMUs)."

So there we are, then!

urbophile · 9 Sep 2016

NorthernSpirit said:
Life expired stock can always come in handy for film and production firms who may be shooting something that is based in the 80's or 90's and require stock from then to use in the final cut.

Are film and TV companies ever bothered about the historical accuracy of the trains they use? The 'live in Metroland' handles on the old Metropolitan compartment doors pop up in all sorts of unlikely contexts. Or 1960s BR stock in WW2-set stories.

Brian Aylott · 10 Sep 2016

Crossover said:
Like the ones in Crewe which are full of rusting old coaching stock - I guess one advantage of it being there is that the land the sidings are on are less likely to get claimed for some other use :P

Full?
At Crewe DHS there are only a few lines in use at present due to the building of the new carriage shed and these have some Mark 1s which are to be overhauled to form Hosking's (LSL) charter fleet with the rest being used for spares.
In addition the Statesman stock is there which is very far from rusting!
Brian

Smudger105e · 10 Sep 2016

Isn't Tiverton Yard still reasonably intact?

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Flying Snail · 10 Sep 2016

L&Y Robert said:
I found this in Railtours & Preservation section
Topic "Ordinary passengers using heritage railways as normal transport" post 23:

"Yes that is a good idea about using newer DMUs when they get withdrawn. Thinking about it the 142 / 143 / 144 / 150 / 153 / 155 / 156 / 158 / 159 are all very likely to get withdrawn within the next five to ten years. They could be very useful for providing services aimed at ordinary passengers and commuters and shoppers.

It would also be great to have some sprinters and pacers in presevation (at the moment 141 103 / 141 108 / 141 113 are the only preserved second generation DMUs)."

So there we are, then!

Maybe read the rest of the thread; Heritage railways are nearly all volunteer run, it is difficult for many of them to get enough people to run a visitor/enthusiast schedule they have no chance of getting full coverage to staff 7 day week year round and the cost of running their railways with employees would be prohibitive.

I would be surprised if a few of examples of most 2nd gen diesel units weren't preserved but there is no call for large numbers of them. Even heritage diesel locos are not particularly popular with non-enthusiasts when used vice steam, I can just imagine the reaction if a 150 turned up. As previously said electrics are a harder sell as there is little chance of running them in preservation.

AnonymousUser1 · 10 Sep 2016

duffield said:
I realize this isn't a serious proposal but I'm sure it's been pointed out before on this site that MK4 coaches and HSTs are not electrically compatible.

Also, don't forget that some HSTs (with modernized MK3 coaches) will live on in Scotland for many years - that's a definite plan.

also a single HST powercar is 'only' 2300 hp ish ...

randyrippley · 10 Sep 2016

plenty of room at abandoned freight and engineers yards all over the country.
Carnforth is a good example - the engineers yard is empty, and usefully close to the existing scrap line at West Coast Railways............

61653 HTAFC · 11 Sep 2016

David Emmott said:
Are film and TV companies ever bothered about the historical accuracy of the trains they use? The 'live in Metroland' handles on the old Metropolitan compartment doors pop up in all sorts of unlikely contexts. Or 1960s BR stock in WW2-set stories.

Oh yes, those old episodes of Casualty and London's Burning where there's a train crash... Wow! Where can I go and ride behind a 17 or a 25?!

Cowley · 11 Sep 2016

Smudger105e said:
Isn't Tiverton Yard still reasonably intact?

Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk

Did you mean Tavistock junction down near Plymouth? I've not been there for a while so not sure, when you go over Marsh Mills on the A38 it looks like there's a yard there still. Perhaps someone else would know.
Is Tyne yard still in existence or has that gone?

swt_passenger · 11 Sep 2016

Cowley said:
Did you mean Tavistock junction down near Plymouth? I've not been there for a while so not sure, when you go over Marsh Mills on the A38 it looks like there's a yard there still. Perhaps someone else would know.
Is Tyne yard still in existence or has that gone?

Some of Tyne Yard is still in day to day regular use, but as a proportion of the full area it has shrunk considerably.

kevjs · 11 Sep 2016

Darren R said:
When I lived near Shoeburyness around that time, I was told that the military also used the rolling stock for target practice, using shells large enough to be heard for many miles.

Who amongst us wouldn't want to see a Pacer being disposed of in such a way?

Hmm, Fit a towbar, a pair of tyres, paint them beige and tell the Top Gear (sorry) Grand Tour crew they are caravans

Smudger105e · 11 Sep 2016

Tavistock Junction indeed. I blame my age!

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gimmea50anyday · 12 Sep 2016

Plenty of siding space at Healey Mills and Tees yard. Theres also space at Evesham in the Fire Training College. Toasting some 142's in a similar way to how some airliners meet their fate for training exercises.

Then theres the military ranges, especially Northberland, Cbria and Dorset. Send a 508 or two kaboom just as they did with 365526.

Film and TV work defo! James Bond must have run out of mk1's to blow up by now!

Has anyone considered the strategic reserve in Woodhead and Box tunnels? Them kettles are going to need something to haul......

NorthernSpirit · 12 Sep 2016

gimmea50anyday said:
Plenty of siding space at Healey Mills and Tees yard. Theres also space at Evesham in the Fire Training College. Toasting some 142's in a similar way to how some airliners meet their fate for training exercises.

Then theres the military ranges, especially Northumberland, Cumbria and Dorset. Send a 508 or two kaboom just as they did with 365526.

Film and TV work defo! James Bond must have run out of mk1's to blow up by now!

Has anyone considered the strategic reserve in Woodhead and Box tunnels? Them kettles are going to need something to haul......

I forgot about Healey Mills yard, maybe the entire fleet of the 150's (apart from the 2 prototypes) would look nice after a round of bullets and a few shotgun blasts have been aimed at them. Sod it, send the 150's to Sailsbury Plain and send a tank over them. The 155's can be sent into the Humber via New Holland Pier (just reconnect up the junction) and the two car 158's could be destroyed by 007 himself.

najaB · 12 Sep 2016

NorthernSpirit said:
...and the two car 158's could be destroyed by 007 himself.

Oi! Leave the 158s alone.

35 miles of sidings required for redundant stock

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