Railops
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Best thing I ever did was leave the RMT.
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GTR tell passengers to tweet the RMT their disgust
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It's actually quite refreshing to see that there are only a few of anti union, anti railway staff people on this forum. And also very refreshing to see the vast majority of tweets were in support of staff (Even if a couple of forum members will refute this until the are blue in the face).
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Railops
Member
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Maybe that is true on here but I wouldn't take this forum to be any in way representative of what the general public think about anything whatsoever.
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samuelmorris
Established Member
I'm supportive of staff in general, but supportive of DOO and against most strike action and therefore unions, especially in this case.
Incidentally, posters still visible on a 377 I was travelling on earlier.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Indeed.
Nor should people use Twitter as a barometer for the "general population".
If Twitter was a reliable barometer then Labour would have won 400 seats at the last General Election!
People do not take to Twitter to say nice things about incumbent bodies in any sense of the word.
Nonetheless, pointing all this out no doubt makes one "anti union", or "anti railway staff". I'm a union member and former railway staff! Yawn, yawn, yawn - water off a duck's back. Reality's hard.
Interesting, any particular reason?
Sprinter153
Member
Indeed, I'd love to see the reaction of some of these people if I tweeted them to tell them they are 'parasitic scum' who 'should be sacked' if they were taking a stand against significant changes to their positions that would render them dispensible, and prone to redundancy and/or their jobs being hived off to outsourcing shysters like On Track or STM within a few years.
They're the obligatory keyboard warriors who wouldn't say a thing to anyone's face.
(Incidentally I'm not an RMT member as I personally don't agree with the pro-nationalism rhetoric, or the way the union's decisions at a local level seem to benefit the same few lazy so-and-sos, but I do generally despair at the use of Twitter as a means of abuse)
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Yes and if you mention that most of the tweets were in support of the staff to the pro DOO crowd you get the response of 'twitter is a left leaning platform'
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Yes and if you mention that most of the tweets were in support of the staff to the pro DOO crowd you get the response of 'twitter is a left leaning platform'
Well judging by the fact it's mostly younger people that use Twitter and social media in general then it makes you believe there is hope for this country yet!
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Yes and if you mention that the tweets to some were in support of the staff to the pro DOO crowd you get the response of 'twitter is a left leaning platform'
But it is - this is a fact.
Conservative Party - 222,000 followers
Labour Party - 359,000 followers
Green Party - 180,000 followers (!)
David Icke - 160,000 followers
It's a platform of dissent, which is why it's left-leaning when incumbent governments are right wing. People do not take to Twitter to agree with hypotheses like "Tell RMT they're a load of scum" by corporations - which is why the Southern campaign was so ill-conceived. Whoever signed that off needs a smack.
These are fairly elementary facts in my profession, which you're free to disagree with of course, but likewise you might respect that other posters might wish to disagree with the drivers' stance that DOO(P) is an absolute sin.
DOO is here, and it's partly thanks to unions living in their little bubble, not reaching out to anyone else, and sticking their fingers in their ears going "la la la la can't hear you, la la la socialism, la la nationalise, la la la" that makes the RMT's opposition so pathetic.
Southern and RMT are as bad as each other.
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Earlier today an electronic version of that appeared on the advert screens next to the escalators at Paddington Bakerloo Line station
(mixed in with various other adverts)Deepgreen
Established Member
I find myself wondering what tone would have been adopted if GTR had been the sole instigators of attempts to impose DOO, rather than HMG's woefully flawed and increasingly desperate campaign. I suspect things might have been handled less aggressively and the Scotrail solution may have been adopted by now. On top of this is the complication of GTR's unique management contract, making it probably more likely than with other TOCs that they would be willing to risk revenue loss to see the issue through on their own terms.
The present situation gives me cause to wonder how any election campaign could succeed if the HMG's grasp of public views is apparently so feeble.
The present situation gives me cause to wonder how any election campaign could succeed if the HMG's grasp of public views is apparently so feeble.
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ushawk
Established Member
The campaign is in the process of being pulled. On-train posters being removed and replaced as soon as possible, most likely this evening after the close of service. No doubt the assault on a conductor at Eastbourne today, in which the person who committed the assault referred to the campaign, has sped this up.
I'll also put it out there that the vast majority of passengers seem to be on the side of staff, not the union, but the staff. The staff and passengers are all just caught up in the middle of it, so the sentiments between staff and passengers seem fair.
I'll also put it out there that the vast majority of passengers seem to be on the side of staff, not the union, but the staff. The staff and passengers are all just caught up in the middle of it, so the sentiments between staff and passengers seem fair.
Let's hope the person who abused a staff member shouting 'strike back strike back' wasn't in fact someone doing so for the benefit of the RMT. Or that the whole thing wasn't made up to put in a hastily written press release.
And if you shouted strike back, wouldn't you actually be asking for the staff member to strike you?!
And if you shouted strike back, wouldn't you actually be asking for the staff member to strike you?!
Deepgreen
Established Member
This is important, as the RMT have also made rather a hash of their campaign so far, and need to learn some serious lessons from their performance on behalf of their members.
It would make sense for the Labour party to have more followers considering the membership is bigger than the Tories. There are plenty of journalists, donors and MPs from the right that have thousands of followers.
During the Tube Strikes people tweeted a lot about RMT going on strike in a negative manner. I agree the Southern campaign was that very ill-conceived but knowing the railway the person who authorised it will probably get a higher paid position elsewhere like Crowther.
I respect what other posters say but it should work both ways. If I make an argument against DOO and keeping of the guard I either get something along the lines of been a 'Luddite' as a reply. Some services I drive are DOO(P) so will be more vocal in this respect of I'm at the front line of this method of working.
The RMT have gone to ACAS but Southern refuse to sit down. The RMT don't do themselves favours at times and that's coming from an ex-member but the way Southern, Horton and the DfT have handled this dispute is simply breathtaking. Not content with having previously took travel and parking passes off staff, blaming sickness for lack of staff on the books, illegally withholding wages (The £258 strike day for everyone regardless of working the bare minimum 6 hours) they wanted to attack it's own staff through it's own union twitter account.
ushawk
Established Member
That is the point. With the way the company has been acting (like we have seen over the last few days especially), the RMT simply hasn't been professional enough. If they were a bit more diplomatic to say the least, they would have passengers on their side too.
The fact passengers support the staff though is the keynote and that isn't a "win" or a "point" for either side in the dispute.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Well, FWIW, I am neither pro- nor anti-DOO(P) in principle - but I can see the merits of both. I absolutely respect the industrial action is about safety. The RMT and rail staff have a sincere concern about safety, and it is clear that GTR (who I don't like - they knew full well what the nature of the franchise was when they bid) are being driven hard from No.10 and used as political pawns to try and break the RMT (I abhor union-busting and detest Tories).
I have concerns about the temporary nature of OBS. All trains on the mainline should have a second person on board where possible, and I don't see that changing in the foreseeable future.
Nonetheless, throughout the whole dispute, I've tried - deliberately - to pick holes in the RMT's, and some rail staff's arguments. At the moment the tendency is to revert to one-dimensional, old fashioned industrial action, which I don't think is going to work. RMT/staff are well outflanked. GTR got £20m from the government to compensate.
I fully agree that GTR/Southern have behaved badly. The latest poster campaign has solidified my view of that. As you say, the RMT do themselves no favours - in my view, too inward looking, too militant, no efforts to forge a wider front against the changes. They really ought to have been much softer and nuanced in their approach from the outset. Get the disabled groups onside. Get local passenger groups onside. Share a picket line. Spend money on PR, not strike compensation payments.
The dispute is depressing to see whichever way you look at it.
Wow you can make decent points. I actually agree with lots of you on this.
Fincra5
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Gonna stop you right there. Its reported that the member of the public said "lets strike back" before assaulting the Conductor. Similarly another Conductor was assaulted under similar circumstances.
Basically, in my own opinion, it is awful PR designed to turn the Public against the Conductors/ Staff strike. Thankfully most people- going by twitter the other day don't agree with GTR.
Clearly you don't like the unions much. Your choice of course.
It would be a massive coincidence if that poster campaign just happened to coincide with the words used by the thug.
That's how it was, just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it false.
The Conductor has reported it as a fact to the police so are you saying he is committing perjury ?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I cited the incident from the RMT's own open letter in an earlier post! The allegation (and it is only an allegation) was that the offender said "strike back strike back". The BTP will investigate that.
The conductor was not assaulted physically, but verbally. It is recorded as a "staff assault", but is not actually a criminal assault, or what most people would consider an assault. That does not make it OK - it's concerning, and unacceptable that staff should have to put up with customers coming up into their face. What happened, according to the RMT themselves, was that a member of staff was confronted by a passenger who did not buy a ticket and said "strike back strike back". In their face. Allegedly. We should be clear about that. No hyperbole or exaggeration please - just facts.
"Don't like unions", heard it all before....yawn. Boring. Typical stone throwing from someone not prepared to address the point.
I'm in a union, and I went to pay meeting today! My dad was a rep for ASLEF. You obviously don't read my posts in full.
I think should be worded as you have precious little information , I know exactly what happened this morning
Fincra5
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The other conductor was physically attacked FYI.
Got to be said I dip in and out of the posts but oddly I switch off in yours
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
Yes, of course you do...which is why you've quote-replied to me twice.
Can you substantiate that he was attacked because of the poster campaign? Is there any evidence of this? Genuine question.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Then I suggest you contribute to the BTP investigation into the little scumbag and don't post about it on here.
Surreytraveller
On Moderation
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I wonder if the HSE will be investigating GTR for deliberately putting its staff at risk of assault? Perhaps the BTP should be arresting whicher idiot decided on this campaign on incitement of something?
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Incitement of something? I think that says it all:roll:
Of course you could always bring this to the HSE's attention yourself, do let us know what response you get!
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So if there was no issues with the posters why have management pulled it so quickly?
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
It isn't that there were no issues. The posters were bloody stupid, probably the stupidest bit of railway Comms I've ever seen. I disagree they were an incitement to commit violence though.
They got pulled because GTR realised pretty quickly they'd scored an enormous own goal. Clowns.
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