1800 Guildford - Waterloo unsafe?

Bletchleyite · 27 Oct 2016

A Challenge said:
I take issue with this - a cyclist, no matter how considerate, can need to go by train, but at peak times I understand it isn't allowed, and so is different to this!

Quite. There is nothing inconsiderate about taking a bicycle on a train.

Where it is inconsiderate is ramming a bicycle forcibly onto a full and standing (including the saloon; I declined to board myself) train, even if technically permitted. I've seen someone do that on a GWR stopper at Slough. If he'd pushed me with it, the train would have been being delayed for BTP attendance while I pressed an assault charge, and I would have happily acted as a witness for anyone else had they expressed a wish to do the same.

Equally, what is also inconsiderate is people who won't move down into the saloon to let more people (or luggage, or bicycles) board, and insist on standing by the doors blocking the way when there is room in the saloons.

It just takes a bit of common sense.

RailUK Forums

GodAtum · 27 Oct 2016

Kite159 said:
Yet passengers seemed to have ignored the 17:47 departure which is also fast after Woking...

Was it because that was probably a 450 rather than a 444?

I guess because they wanted to go to Clapham

TEW · 27 Oct 2016

In which case they should have taken the 17:34 via Cobham service, which arrives a couple of minutes before the 1800 via Woking, and guarantees a seat from Guildford.

infobleep · 27 Oct 2016

TEW said:
In which case they should have taken the 17:34 via Cobham service, which arrives a couple of minutes before the 1800 via Woking, and guarantees a seat from Guildford.

But has no loos on board or even WiFi. The latter may not be considered worthy of existence for such a journey but I'd probably choose the service with a loo over the one without, even if arriving a few minutes later.

It's a shame when they cancel Clapham Junction on fast services they can't insert it into another connecting service. I am guessing the infrastructure won't allow it.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Kite159 · 27 Oct 2016

When a Clapham Junction call got removed from a late running West Of England service, passengers were allowed to double back via Waterloo to reach Clapham Junction (still went via the P7 loop without stopping through)

Metobusfan · 28 Oct 2016

Blindtraveler said:
SWT could always add coaches by hiring some 442s?

442 back with SWT would be good haha

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

GodAtum · 28 Oct 2016

TEW said:
In which case they should have taken the 17:34 via Cobham service, which arrives a couple of minutes before the 1800 via Woking, and guarantees a seat from Guildford.

I suppose those trains are horrible to travel on if you are used to a comfortable 444/450! plus stopping at every stop would be worse then pulling teeth out at a dentist.

Darandio · 28 Oct 2016

GodAtum said:
plus stopping at every stop would be worse then pulling teeth out at a dentist.

Given you create threads like this one, plus the ones about first class, i'm starting to wonder if train travel just isn't for you. May I suggest having your own chauffeur?

GodAtum · 28 Oct 2016

Darandio said:
Given you create threads like this one, plus the ones about first class, i'm starting to wonder if train travel just isn't for you. May I suggest having your own chauffeur?

Who ever enjoys commutting to work?

TEW · 28 Oct 2016

GodAtum said:
I suppose those trains are horrible to travel on if you are used to a comfortable 444/450! plus stopping at every stop would be worse then pulling teeth out at a dentist.

You do realise they have exactly the same seats? Actually in a more spacious layout compared to a 450. You don't get an armrest, carpet, toilet or air conditioning, but the interiors aren't really that uncomfortable.
It may feel slower, but it still would get people to Clapham quicker than waiting on the platform at Guildford for 30 minutes.

infobleep · 29 Oct 2016

TEW said:
You do realise they have exactly the same seats? Actually in a more spacious layout compared to a 450. You don't get an armrest, carpet, toilet or air conditioning, but the interiors aren't really that uncomfortable.
It may feel slower, but it still would get people to Clapham quicker than waiting on the platform at Guildford for 30 minutes.

I was on a 450 once that was being used on a Cobham line stopper and someone commented how posh it was compared to a 455. May be the seats are just as good and a 455 has more space. However they still thought a 450 was better. In fact even I do!

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

GodAtum · 3 Nov 2016

Yesterday some revenue inspectors same through checking tickets on the 1834. Having a chat with them they explained that the guard has asked them as it was short formed of 4 coaches. Unfortunately they got off at Woking.

GodAtum · 22 Nov 2016

I felt very sorry for the guard on a recent 1800. He was asking people to move but since they had nowhere to go as the train was full, they ended up standing in the aisle. A losing battle!

GodAtum · 7 Feb 2017

An uphill struggle for the guard yesterday. he tried to move some people at Guildford, but they could not physically walk down the train. then at Woking at least a dozen people sat down in 1st with nowwhere to move them. SWT need to get their act together and make this a 8 or 10 car at least!

GW43125 · 7 Feb 2017

GodAtum said:
An uphill struggle for the guard yesterday. he tried to move some people at Guildford, but they could not physically walk down the train. then at Woking at least a dozen people sat down in 1st with nowwhere to move them. SWT need to get their act together and make this a 8 or 10 car at least!

And where do you propose the stock for that comes from?

43096 · 7 Feb 2017

GW43125 said:
And where do you propose the stock for that comes from?

Introduction of 707s moves 458s to the Reading line, freeing up 24 x 450s (of which 5 go to Ascot-Guildford). The other 19 are for strengthening over services.

GodAtum · 8 Feb 2017

GW43125 said:
And where do you propose the stock for that comes from?

Well until last year it was a 10 car.

infobleep · 8 Feb 2017

GodAtum said:
Well until last year it was a 10 car.

Does anyone know where the 5 coaches went?

Do you know how often standard class passengers end up sitting in first class on this service?

If it's always this busy, perhaps they could permanently declassified first class between Guildford and Waterloo, until more rolling stock arrives to strengthen it. Would declassifing first class help at all?

Matt Taylor · 11 Feb 2017

The 2P60 1645 from Portsmouth did use to be a 10 car and would then form the 1P61 1900 Waterloo-Portsmouth, since December 2015 it has been 5 cars from Portsmouth with the other 5 cars remaining in the platform to form the 1715 to Waterloo. 2P60 now attaches at Waterloo to the 5 cars which had previously formed 2B60 from Poole. The 'missing' 5 cars from 2P60 have been used elsewhere on a busier service as 2P60 is fairly quiet for most of it's journey and only becomes busy between Guildford and Clapham Junction. I work this train fairly often (as recently as February 9th) and although it is very busy (equivalent to the morning peak) towards the front but there is much more room available towards the rear. There is no need to declassify as it's just a case of too many people wanting to be at the front of the train, when I worked it yesterday we had people standing in the aisles at the front yet there empty seats towards the rear (I checked this via the CCTV).

It clearly isn't an ideal situation but I would expect it to return to being a ten car, or more likely a 12 car service in December when the 707s are fully on stream.

GodAtum · 12 Feb 2017

Matt Taylor said:
The 2P60 1645 from Portsmouth did use to be a 10 car and would then form the 1P61 1900 Waterloo-Portsmouth, since December 2015 it has been 5 cars from Portsmouth with the other 5 cars remaining in the platform to form the 1715 to Waterloo. 2P60 now attaches at Waterloo to the 5 cars which had previously formed 2B60 from Poole. The 'missing' 5 cars from 2P60 have been used elsewhere on a busier service as 2P60 is fairly quiet for most of it's journey and only becomes busy between Guildford and Clapham Junction. I work this train fairly often (as recently as February 9th) and although it is very busy (equivalent to the morning peak) towards the front but there is much more room available towards the rear. There is no need to declassify as it's just a case of too many people wanting to be at the front of the train, when I worked it yesterday we had people standing in the aisles at the front yet there empty seats towards the rear (I checked this via the CCTV).

It clearly isn't an ideal situation but I would expect it to return to being a ten car, or more likely a 12 car service in December when the 707s are fully on stream.

Thanks for the information! It's funny SWT are worse at annoucements then Southern. Southern station staff announce short formed trains and advise people where to stand on the platform. I think SWT station staff should do the same.

30907 · 12 Feb 2017

GodAtum said:
Thanks for the information! It's funny SWT are worse at annoucements then Southern. Southern station staff announce short formed trains and advise people where to stand on the platform. I think SWT station staff should do the same.

Strange. I was at Portsmouth and Eastleigh the other day and the platform indicators were consistently indicating the number of coaches. Perhaps Guildford doesn't have the facility?
Of course, the train in question isn't short-formed, merely short.

GodAtum · 12 Feb 2017

30907 said:
Strange. I was at Portsmouth and Eastleigh the other day and the platform indicators were consistently indicating the number of coaches. Perhaps Guildford doesn't have the facility?
Of course, the train in question isn't short-formed, merely short.

Yes the CIS does say the number of coaches but many people spread along the entire platform. At East Croydon, announcements are made telling people where to stand if it a 4, 8 or 12 car train.

TEW · 12 Feb 2017

Matt Taylor said:
The 2P60 1645 from Portsmouth did use to be a 10 car and would then form the 1P61 1900 Waterloo-Portsmouth, since December 2015 it has been 5 cars from Portsmouth with the other 5 cars remaining in the platform to form the 1715 to Waterloo. 2P60 now attaches at Waterloo to the 5 cars which had previously formed 2B60 from Poole. The 'missing' 5 cars from 2P60 have been used elsewhere on a busier service as 2P60 is fairly quiet for most of it's journey and only becomes busy between Guildford and Clapham Junction. I work this train fairly often (as recently as February 9th) and although it is very busy (equivalent to the morning peak) towards the front but there is much more room available towards the rear. There is no need to declassify as it's just a case of too many people wanting to be at the front of the train, when I worked it yesterday we had people standing in the aisles at the front yet there empty seats towards the rear (I checked this via the CCTV).

It clearly isn't an ideal situation but I would expect it to return to being a ten car, or more likely a 12 car service in December when the 707s are fully on stream.

Even when the train was a 10-car there were always people standing near the front, whilst the rear couple of coaches would be almost completely empty.

swt_passenger · 13 Feb 2017

GodAtum said:
Yes the CIS does say the number of coaches but many people spread along the entire platform. At East Croydon, announcements are made telling people where to stand if it a 4, 8 or 12 car train.

Isn't that just because of the particular circumstances at East Croydon? I doubt SN do it everywhere.

infobleep · 13 Feb 2017

Matt Taylor said:
The 2P60 1645 from Portsmouth did use to be a 10 car and would then form the 1P61 1900 Waterloo-Portsmouth, since December 2015 it has been 5 cars from Portsmouth with the other 5 cars remaining in the platform to form the 1715 to Waterloo. 2P60 now attaches at Waterloo to the 5 cars which had previously formed 2B60 from Poole. The 'missing' 5 cars from 2P60 have been used elsewhere on a busier service as 2P60 is fairly quiet for most of it's journey and only becomes busy between Guildford and Clapham Junction. I work this train fairly often (as recently as February 9th) and although it is very busy (equivalent to the morning peak) towards the front but there is much more room available towards the rear. There is no need to declassify as it's just a case of too many people wanting to be at the front of the train, when I worked it yesterday we had people standing in the aisles at the front yet there empty seats towards the rear (I checked this via the CCTV).

It clearly isn't an ideal situation but I would expect it to return to being a ten car, or more likely a 12 car service in December when the 707s are fully on stream.

Interesting. Thanks for that. If there are seats at the back then maybe problem solved, as one can just sit there. I guess it depends on how many seats are at the back.

Would this train need 12 coaches or would 10 be enough? I take it, it wouldn't be possible to attach more carriages at Guildford, if more carriages were available of course? I know some attaching and detaching takes place at Guildford.

infobleep · 13 Feb 2017

GodAtum said:
Thanks for the information! It's funny SWT are worse at annoucements then Southern. Southern station staff announce short formed trains and advise people where to stand on the platform. I think SWT station staff should do the same.

The train isn't short formed though. It's just of a regular shorter length. I know it's pedantic but when I use to regularly catch the 18.46 Clapham Junction to Woking service, when it was 5 carriages, there was never any announcement about it being short, despite it being packed in every carriage at Clapham Junction.

Ffom what Matt Taylor said I assume it was more busy than the 18.00 from Guildford. Yet if a train was unusually short formed, it would mostly get announced as such.

It was like because it was timetabled to be short, the overcrowding didn't matter to much. Where as short formations did matter. I know that isn't the case but of public announcements that was the impression.

18.46 is now 8 carriages, problem solved.

Deepgreen · 15 Feb 2017

swt_passenger said:
Isn't that just because of the particular circumstances at East Croydon? I doubt SN do it everywhere.

Yes, I believe so. At Redhill, we are not even told how long the train will be, let alone where to stand! Sometimes the p.a. will broadcast the train length as it is arriving, but that's too late. When I have raised this with Southern in the past, I have been told that it is "impossible" owing to the frequent joining and splitting of trains at Redhill, which I found very hard to swallow.

1800 Guildford - Waterloo unsafe?

Veteran Member

RailUK Forums

On Moderation

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

On Moderation

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Veteran Member

On Moderation

On Moderation

On Moderation

Established Member

On Moderation

On Moderation

Veteran Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Veteran Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member