National Express bringing back double deckers

cambsy · 21 Oct 2016

National Express is bringing back double deckers after being absent for years, because of the M25 overturning incident with a Neoplan.

It is suggested that from 29th October it will be using Scania Cataeno Levante styled double deckers on the A1 route from London. There have been trials in Birmingham, the info is on the Oxford and Chiltern bus page with pics.

Now if double deckers do make a proper return nationwide with National Express, which makes of double deckers would Parks of Hamilton use? They have been one of the biggest users of double deckers for National Express, and a long history of double decker use out of Plymouth when it was Trathens, as I understand Dennis Parks doesn't like the Cataeno's because they are not a good coach, and some other reasons too, which have heard from various sources, which is why he uses Plaxton Elites out of Plymouth Burrington way depot, and plaxton's in Scotland, I think choices could be Vanhool, VDL, Setra, and though not double deckers could use Elite Interdeckers.

Would people like to see double deckers back with National Express?

Which make would you like?

I might try the Cataeno double-decker out and report on it, and know what other people think too?

RailUK Forums

Busaholic · 22 Oct 2016

So long as they're not Borismasters I'm OK with the decision.

Smuggler · 22 Oct 2016

Can't find anywhere online saying they're going to do this...

Really hope so, was very fond of the Skyliners and would love to see deckers return to NE.

MotCO · 22 Oct 2016

Most Nat Exp coaches are Levantes, although are other types are used. Must Nat Exp contractors use Lavantes or are they free to use any type of coach, and if so, what are the restrictions?

plcd1 · 23 Oct 2016

Smuggler said:
Can't find anywhere online saying they're going to do this...

Really hope so, was very fond of the Skyliners and would love to see deckers return to NE.

I have seen a photo (in a Bus News pdf I receive) of a Caetano Levante double decker coach in Nat Ex livery from about a month ago. Therefore at least one vehicle certainly does exist. They were stated as being for London area "A" routes. No sign yet of the vehicles being delivered and registered for service.

padbus · 23 Oct 2016

Smuggler said:
Can't find anywhere online saying they're going to do this...

Really hope so, was very fond of the Skyliners and would love to see deckers return to NE.

NatEx are keeping things quiet but double decks are definitely on the way. They are similar to, but not exactly the same as, the ones delivered recently to Ulsterbus. Perhaps all will be revealed at EuroBus Expo at the NEC next month.

GaryMcEwan · 23 Oct 2016

Here's one of them...

See here...

Bungle965 · 24 Oct 2016

MotCO said:
Most Nat Exp coaches are Levantes, although are other types are used. Must Nat Exp contractors use Lavantes or are they free to use any type of coach, and if so, what are the restrictions?

Yes National Express operators must use either the Caetano Levante or the Plaxton Elite, the Plaxton Elite was only added because Parks of Hamilton refused to use the Caetano Levante, and because they run such a large amount of routes National Express must have been willing to allow them. Parks was the sole operator but I believe that Skills also have one now. The only other exception that I know is with Chalfont where they were using their own Van Hools, but they are now moving away and have received some new Levantes. If the operator does not have these vehicle available for whatever reason they are allowed to use one of their own, however there is a financial penalty for doing so. Usually at time when services are busy National Express will run duplicates and they will either come from the same company that runs the services or other coach companies can 'bid' to run the duplicate. Even though there is not restrictions on the type of coach that can be used on the service the coach still has to be less than 10 years old I believe.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

padbus said:
NatEx are keeping things quiet but double decks are definitely on the way. They are similar to, but not exactly the same as, the ones delivered recently to Ulsterbus. Perhaps all will be revealed at EuroBus Expo at the NEC next month.

Out of their own ops running which they will be used on the London-Luton services,the double deckers will be used on services where it is predominately motorway running, routes that were quoted were London to Birmingham, Manchester, Swansea and Cardiff.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

plcd1 said:
I have seen a photo (in a Bus News pdf I receive) of a Caetano Levante double decker coach in Nat Ex livery from about a month ago. Therefore at least one vehicle certainly does exist. They were stated as being for London area "A" routes. No sign yet of the vehicles being delivered and registered for service.

There is currently 6 of them, 5 are going are for their own operations, and the 6th one is going to Edwards Coaches for use on the Swansea-London services.
Sam

221129 · 24 Oct 2016

bungle965 said:
Yes National Express operators must use either the Caetano Levante or the Plaxton Elite, the Plaxton Elite was only added because Parks of Hamilton refused to use the Caetano Levante, and because they run such a large amount of routes National Express must have been willing to allow them. Parks was the sole operator but I believe that Skills also have one now.

What a load of tosh.

AnonymousUser1 · 24 Oct 2016

ollieb said:
What a load of tosh.

care to expand ?

why shouldn;t an franchisor require it's franchisees to comply with an equipment and corporate image policy ?

221129 · 24 Oct 2016

mph1977 said:
care to expand ?

why shouldn;t an franchisor require it's franchisees to comply with an equipment and corporate image policy ?

I am reffering to the poster saying that it is Only Parks allowed to use Elites and that the only options are Elites or Levantes.

Bungle965 · 24 Oct 2016

ollieb said:
I am reffering to the poster saying that it is Only Parks allowed to use Elites and that the only options are Elites or Levantes.

I never said that Parks was the only operator, as I said that Skills are now operating a Plaxton Elite, furthermore what other companies use anything other than Plaxtons Elites and Levantes. If you are referring to Chalfonts who operated Van Hools, they have received some new Levantes. They are moving away from using their own Van Hools.
Sam

221129 · 24 Oct 2016

bungle965 said:
I never said that Parks was the only operator, as I said that Skills are now operating a Plaxton Elite, furthermore what other companies use anything other than Plaxtons Elites and Levantes?
Sam

Chalfont and their Vanhools, Excalibur and their Sunsundeguis and Irizars, Parks and thier Panthers...

A number of operators use Elites, and have done for a long time.

Bungle965 · 24 Oct 2016

ollieb said:
Chalfont and their Vanhools, Excalibur and their Sunsundeguis and Irizars, Parks and thier Panthers...

A number of operators use Elites, and have done for a long time.

As you may have noticed I have included Chalfont, I had indeed forgotten about Excalibur I apologise. However these coaches a fairly few and far between. I believe that none of there contractors use Irizars anymore. Who else uses Elites apart from Parks and more recently Skills?
Sam

221129 · 24 Oct 2016

bungle965 said:
As you may have noticed I have included Chalfont, I had indeed forgotten about Excalibur I apologise. However these coaches a fairly few and far between. I believe that none of there contractors use Irizars anymore. Who else uses Elites apart from Parks and more recently Skills?
Sam

Stagecoach East Kent have been using them since mid 2010
Stagecoach Yorkshire have been using them since early 2011
Selwyns since mid 2010

richw · 24 Oct 2016

bungle965 said:
Even though there is not restrictions on the type of coach that can be used on the service the coach still has to be less than 10 years old I believe.

No age limit on dupes. It was discussed on a contacts Flickr photo of a 53 plate in the summer. An employee of the operator of the 53 plate responded to confirm no age restriction was specified on that tender.

Bungle965 · 24 Oct 2016

ollieb said:
Stagecoach East Kent have been using them since mid 2010
Stagecoach Yorkshire have been using them since early 2011
Selwyns since mid 2010

Of course yes.
My apologies.
Sam

jammy36 · 24 Oct 2016

mph1977 said:
care to expand ?

why shouldn;t an franchisor require it's franchisees to comply with an equipment and corporate image policy ?

My understanding (and this was a few years ago) was that NatEx didn't (and couldn't) specify manufacturer of coach, but did have a very stringent set of requirements in terms of vehicle specification (number of seat, internal layout, toilet position, emergency door location, wheelchair accessibility - not just accessible, but using a GNX-Access lift combined with PLS MagicFloor, display type, etc, etc). Basically the spec was (is) so specific that by default there are only limited options in terms of what coaches can be used (primarily Levante which was designed in partnership with NatEx specifically to meet their specification). Paxton produced a version of their Panther and later Elite to meet this specification, partly at the request of their customers and partly as a UK manufacturer because it was in their interest to do so.

There have been one off exceptions due to specific circumstances (shorter term bridging contracts before new tender, need for emergency cover after operator collapse, unexpected operational need, vehicle trial, etc) that has meant the standard specification isn't always strictly adhered to, but basically the spec is so tight operators are very limited as to what they can use and the Levante is encouraged, but not required.

plcd1 · 28 Oct 2016

Seems the first six double decks are due into service imminently.

CD01 - BV66WPJ
14.2m Scania K410UB 6x2*4 LB 14.2m CH63/16Dt Caetano Boa Vista

This one is for Edwards of Llanwit Fadre for work on the London - Cardiff / Swansea route.

These five are for National Express Luton for the A1 service London - Luton Airport / Luton.

CD02 - BV66WPK
CD03 - BV66WPL
CD04 - BV66WPM
CD05 - BV66WPN
CD06 - BV66WPO

DD12 · 30 Oct 2016

I'm surprised that National Express have "gone for" such tall DDs,
- at 13' 7", with apparently 63 seats upstairs.
I would have thought a lower centre of gravity would have been chosen for safety.

- Saying that, - I will be first in line to ride one if ever they get some for a Birmingham to Cornwall service !!

AnonymousUser1 · 30 Oct 2016

DD12 said:
I'm surprised that National Express have "gone for" such tall DDs,
- at 13' 7", with apparently 63 seats upstairs.
I would have thought a lower centre of gravity would have been chosen for safety.

- Saying that, - I will be first in line to ride one if ever they get some for a Birmingham to Cornwall service !!

13' 7" is relatively low for a true double decker in service pus terms it's 'lowbridge' territory rather well over 14' for a traditional 'highbridge' ... ( all somewhat academic in these accessible vehicle days )

that said the UK record for 'lowbridge' is Barton's 861HAL but i'm unsure of the sallon heights there

notadriver · 31 Oct 2016

410 bhp for a tri-axle double decker that's 14 meters long isn't much. They'll be easily noticeable as they struggle up hills and I'm sure they'll be limited to 58 or 59 mph too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the101 · 31 Oct 2016

notadriver said:
410 bhp for a tri-axle double decker that's 14 meters long isn't much. They'll be easily noticeable as they struggle up hills and I'm sure they'll be limited to 58 or 59 mph too.

I'm not sure how long a vehicle is has anything to do with how fast it may or may not go up hills.

The gross weight on these will be the same as any other tri-axle coach. The 410 engine is a 13-litre unit and so it will have plenty of torque.

winston270twm · 31 Oct 2016

plcd1 said:
Seems the first six double decks are due into service imminently.

CD01 - BV66WPJ
14.2m Scania K410UB 6x2*4 LB 14.2m CH63/16Dt Caetano Boa Vista

This one is for Edwards of Llanwit Fadre for work on the London - Cardiff / Swansea route.

These five are for National Express Luton for the A1 service London - Luton Airport / Luton.

CD02 - BV66WPK
CD03 - BV66WPL
CD04 - BV66WPM
CD05 - BV66WPN
CD06 - BV66WPO

It's actually CD06 that is operating for Edwards:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidsbusphotos/30384289190/

AnonymousUser1 · 31 Oct 2016

the101 said:
I'm not sure how long a vehicle is has anything to do with how fast it may or may not go up hills.

The gross weight on these will be the same as any other tri-axle coach. The 410 engine is a 13-litre unit and so it will have plenty of torque.

400 ish BHP is also deemed acceptable for artics which while not running at max wieght are running at wieghts in excess of that permitted fora 3 axle rigid

notadriver · 31 Oct 2016

mph1977 said:
400 ish BHP is also deemed acceptable for artics which while not running at max wieght are running at wieghts in excess of that permitted fora 3 axle rigid

I'm not sure what artic lorries have to do with coaches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

AnonymousUser1 · 31 Oct 2016

notadriver said:
I'm not sure what artic lorries have to do with coaches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the assertion that 400 BHP is inadequate for a PCV ... given there are heavier LGVs running around at 400 ish bhp on 'timely' work...

Mwanesh · 31 Oct 2016

notadriver said:
I'm not sure what artic lorries have to do with coaches.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Coach engines are just adapted truck engines thats why it was mentioned.

AnonymousUser1 · 31 Oct 2016

Mwanesh said:
Coach engines are just adapted truck engines thats why it was mentioned.

or vice versa , however what can be said is that high speed diesels of the size used by coacahes are also used in lorries, plant, boats and trains ....

fowler9 · 31 Oct 2016

Purely for nostalgia reasons I would love to see a few Busscar or Marco Polo bodied buses to remind me of my time in South America. That said I was on a relatively new Merc tri axle Marco Polo that caught fire in the middle of the Atacama Dessert at 3 in the morning. It looked amazing though and was really comfortable.

When I say it looked amazing I don't mean on fire.

National Express bringing back double deckers

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