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The outlook for today's youngsters

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Harbon 1

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It changed a bit ago (2008 I think?) to the standard two tier system (Foundation: Grades G-E, Higher: Grades D-A*).

Ours (in 2012) were F-C and D-A* i think.

I was one of those that did well in GCSE but struggled in A-Level. I finished with an A overall in physics, took it at A-Level, straight to Us :lol:

The school making me drop it was the best thing they've ever made me do. We were one of the last years that didn't have to do maths at A-level, but with a BTEC where I am now, we're doing A-level maths and physics and really struggling with it since the last maths I did was when I passed my GCSE with a B (three marks off an A apparently) on a really easy question paper, 5 years ago this upcoming January. Something that doesn't help me put bolts in holes or weld at work! <(
 
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lemonic

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I am part way through doing a "good" degree and a top tier university and don't really know what I want to work in after uni, but when I look at job sites, either for part time jobs or occasionally to think about the sorts of things I could do long term it seems that for many, many things, you need to have experience to get the job but can't get the experience because you've not had the job! I wonder if this has changed particularly since my parents entered the world of work. It seems to me that my paths forward would have to be onto some sort of grad placement scheme / internships but I can't afford for those to be un/barely paid which they often are. So I feel I am going to be in a catch 22. However when I talk to my dad about this he is much more philosophical and relaxed about it, saying that Iwill be and opportunities will happen and your path will work itself out in ways you didn't expect

I possess a good degree from a top tier university and am now in a well-paid and well-respected job. I wouldn't be in the job I am in now without work experience I gained in my summer holidays as well as my degree. I strongly recommend getting whatever work experience you can in your summer holidays, even if this is just unpaid work experience for a couple of weeks. It will make applying for graduate schemes much easier as you will then have more examples to use to answer competency questions. Any work experience is good work experience even if it is not directly related to the field of work you want a career in.
 

Domh245

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To add to the already dreary prospects that we were facing before the middle of this year, we've now got what appears to be some kind of step change in politics, and not for the better.
 

125Forever

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Is he?

I personally take the view that opinions should not be silenced - quite the opposite - they should be expressed and challenged.

Having Googled the name concerned - it certainly would be better that his opinions are expressed and then vocally challenged rather than allowed to bubble quietly under the surface. As they are certainly unsavoury to me.

Exactly. You won't stop people having opinions by banning them.

The point I was trying to make is that for these three lads, apart from dealing with a massive debt at the end of it they may well have to share campus space with people who demand that any beliefs apart from theirs be silenced and shut down. What if they disagreed with the permanently offended mob? They'd be in for a lot of grief, and I know of plenty of students who have left Universities due to this unacceptable bullying by these 'people'.

When Universities are run by the students, rather than the senior management, they are no longer fit for purpose.

Even if somebody is seen as sexist/misogynist etc. (and I say this as a homosexual male) give them the platform to speak on - the real bigots will hang themselves if you give them enough rope.

Besides, offence is something personal and should not be dictated to by group-think as to what is/isn't acceptable to say.
 

pemma

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It changed a bit ago (2008 I think?) to the standard two tier system (Foundation: Grades G-E, Higher: Grades D-A*).

Ours (in 2012) were F-C and D-A* i think.

Not allowing an overlap seems surprising as what are teachers supposed to do if a pupil is borderline between two grades - enter them for the foundation tier and they can't achieve the better grade or enter them for the higher tier and if they don't do as well as they can they get an ungraded mark.
 

miami

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Is he?

I personally take the view that opinions should not be silenced - quite the opposite - they should be expressed and challenged.

Having Googled the name concerned - it certainly would be better that his opinions are expressed and then vocally challenged rather than allowed to bubble quietly under the surface. As they are certainly unsavoury to me.

Back in the early 2000s I remember arguing against a student union ban on having the bnp turn up to a debate. Better to fight in the open so we can see their views. We won.

In 2009 Nick Griffin was invited onto Question Time. While the usual ant-free-speech idiots paraded outside of TVC (hours after the program had been filmed), and even managed to get into the building, it was this broadcast that showed Nick Griffin and his party up for what they really are. The following year's election saw Griffin losing votes in the constituency he tried to get elected in. 2009 really was the peak of BNP support, which faded rapidly after that appearance.
 

underbank

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Not allowing an overlap seems surprising as what are teachers supposed to do if a pupil is borderline between two grades - enter them for the foundation tier and they can't achieve the better grade or enter them for the higher tier and if they don't do as well as they can they get an ungraded mark.

C is the overlap grade. Foundation highest grade is C, higher lowest grade is C.
 

Richard_B

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I possess a good degree from a top tier university and am now in a well-paid and well-respected job. I wouldn't be in the job I am in now without work experience I gained in my summer holidays as well as my degree. I strongly recommend getting whatever work experience you can in your summer holidays, even if this is just unpaid work experience for a couple of weeks. It will make applying for graduate schemes much easier as you will then have more examples to use to answer competency questions. Any work experience is good work experience even if it is not directly related to the field of work you want a career in.

Thank you for the advice.

Exactly. You won't stop people having opinions by banning them.

The point I was trying to make is that for these three lads, apart from dealing with a massive debt at the end of it they may well have to share campus space with people who demand that any beliefs apart from theirs be silenced and shut down. What if they disagreed with the permanently offended mob? They'd be in for a lot of grief, and I know of plenty of students who have left Universities due to this unacceptable bullying by these 'people'.

When Universities are run by the students, rather than the senior management, they are no longer fit for purpose.

Even if somebody is seen as sexist/misogynist etc. (and I say this as a homosexual male) give them the platform to speak on - the real bigots will hang themselves if you give them enough rope.

Besides, offence is something personal and should not be dictated to by group-think as to what is/isn't acceptable to say.

I have problems with unlimited free speech but safe spaces aren't a great solution.

For example a KKK member should not be able to publically intimidate, abuse and incite violence without penalty.

However for less clear cut cases I see that drawing the line is difficult.

Having said that the vast majority of cases I see of people fighting against being no platformed are being genuinely hateful and abusive, not just accidentally casually racist or sexist and aren't just being blocked by the "loony leftie" crowd.
 

125Forever

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What if the "opinion" isn't really an opinion, but racist and sexist abuse of an individual?

The difficulty with this, AlterEgo, is the number of cry babies who use the system to their advantage.

Where it is real and sustained abuse, then fine, but there are occasions where people will want to be offended so that it justifies their beliefs.

Also, what about those times when the stories of abuse are actually false and didn't happen?

http://www.advocate.com/crime/2016/7/01/21-lgbt-people-accused-faking-hate-crime

People like this do more of a dis-service to the gay community than some random yob calling them slurs which can easily be bounced off.
 

AlterEgo

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The difficulty with this, AlterEgo, is the number of cry babies who use the system to their advantage.

Where it is real and sustained abuse, then fine, but there are occasions where people will want to be offended so that it justifies their beliefs.

Also, what about those times when the stories of abuse are actually false and didn't happen?

http://www.advocate.com/crime/2016/7/01/21-lgbt-people-accused-faking-hate-crime

People like this do more of a dis-service to the gay community than some random yob calling them slurs which can easily be bounced off.

That's all very well, but none of that is relevant to real abuse.

Real abuse - sexist, racist hate - is why Milo Yiannopolous got banned from Twitter and outlets like the BBC. It's not because of his political views, it's because he is a deeply unpleasant liar and abuser with a very questionable following of internet trolls.
 

125Forever

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Has banning him stopped any of the abuse, though?

People will do and say nasty things because, guess what, we have democracy. You cannot police everybody who has a PC or Mobile, so yes there are going to be some deeply unpleasant things said online. Therein lies another question - how do you separate comedy and banter from real abuse on the internet (the wheat from the chaff) and do you (not you personally) demand a person be banned from speaking/typing because your feelings are hurt?

Also, who gets to decide what is acceptable and what isn't? If a joke about a homosexual adult is to be censored (regardless of how funny or not it is) and banned, yet a joke about a dead baby in a blender is deemed as funny then I would call into question the ethics and integrity of those behind the decision.

Milo is still going to be Milo, regardless of his Twitter and BBC bans and (if anything) it will only make him stronger and encourage more people who think like him to his cause. If you actually talk with and deal with somebody like him, then you can both see each others point of view and maybe you can work on changing that person.

The 'Ban Hammer' method has failed.
 

AlterEgo

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Has banning him stopped any of the abuse, though?

It's stopped him from racially and misogynistically abusing people on Twitter and the BBC, which is all those two organisations are going to care about.

I certainly wouldn't ban him from speaking at somewhere like a university campus, but when it comes to online community management, there's a responsibility on those who own the channel not to let it turn into an abusive environment.
 

pemma

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Ah my memory escapes me then. If we got a C in a foundation paper, took the higher and failed, we kept our highest mark. I'm aware this changed not long after however.

How exactly did that work?

I can understand in Maths with each paper having different questions but with English papers I seem to recall the questions used to be the same but with Foundation level entrants getting some helpful bullet points alongside the question.
 

Harbon 1

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How exactly did that work?



I can understand in Maths with each paper having different questions but with English papers I seem to recall the questions used to be the same but with Foundation level entrants getting some helpful bullet points alongside the question.



English I'm not too sure, I only took chemistry as foundation, then (forcibly) took higher and kept my mark :oops:

Edit: English possibly had different passages of text for each paper with associated questions, possibly with pointers too.
 
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roversfan2001

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In the new GCSE Maths course (first exam 2017) both grades 4 and 5 (equivalent to a C and lower end of a B) are available on both tiers.

Sent from my HTC Desire 530 using Tapatalk
 

D365

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They're simply not educationally gifted enough, which they freely admit. For example, the one who wants to go into engineering got A* in GCSE Maths but really struggling with A-Level Maths.

Sounds rather like me, I could do the work in class for A-Levels however I lost all motivation to practice at home and hence performed appallingly in exams. Thankfully I received an offer from my current university and despite having to take Further Maths again, I'm generally on top of my work and have met some great people. Currently applying for a bunch of different railway engineering year-long placements.
 

Crossover

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It's around a decade since I was looking to make decisions about my future. Initially I didn't think uni was the way I should go but realised relatively late on that I probably needed to. The view school gave was that uni was the only option and to be honest, the likes of apprenticeships weren't discussed much from what I recall.

I'm sure I wouldn't be where I am without having a degree, though in my career in IT, experience also counts for a lot I feel
 
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As a University student myself, most aspects of life after studies look pretty bad at this present time...

Yesterday, 15,000 of us demonstrated just that at the annual NUS / UCU United for Education demo at Westminster as it's likely the Higher Education Bill which includes scope for further fee rises, will pass through the commons.

It feels like the upcoming generation is going to be hugely disadvantaged as a result of yet more disgraceful changes to how we study and the results at the end of it, and that will hit society instantly.

For someone like myself wanting to eventually get into Westminster within 15/20 years, it sliently breaks my heart to see possible futures being flushed away very quietly in the background.

Constant ref-raf of the system has to stop and now.
 

miami

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It doesn't matter what the tuition fees are - £10k, £100k, £1 billion per year/term/day, you pay 9% of your income over £21,000. Your effective income tax (including national insurance) is

£0-£8k 0%
£8k-£11k 12%
£11k-£21k 32%
£21k-£43k 41%
£43k+ 52%

Plus another 14%ish from the employer, and things beyond £50k being muddier with child benefit, higher income tax bands, reduction in personal thresholds, etc

In an ideal world only 10% of 18 year olds would go to university, and that 10% would be based on ability, not on wealth. When Labour introduced this "everyone to university" view, it reduced the workforce (it was aged 21-65 rather than 18-65), thus kept unemployment down, however was unaffordable. By making people pay for their courses this allowed the system to be affordable, and by making the repayments occur based on income after graduation it meant that those who benefitted from university but graduated to do a low paid but essential jobs (nurses etc) paid little - £30k a year is under £70 a month. It meant those that didn't benefit from university but instead went and got a job aged 18 didn't pay anything, and those who went on to be £200k a year stockbrokers weren't getting their education subsidised by the rest of the country.

It's a graduate tax, but with a provision to recoup investment in people who have left the country, it's immensely fair.

Were I still young I'd be far more concerned with the costs of housing. £60k of student debt is nothing compared with a £500k 2 bed apartment in the south east.
 
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