D365
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Well they got their estimates wrong didn't they.
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Class 387
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Well they got their estimates wrong didn't they.
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317 forever
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That's it thanks. I shall never ask about Paddington - Hayes electrics again as this is so clear!
samuelmorris
Established Member
Aboard 302 now. The service arrived as an 8-car for a service which is already fairly heavily loaded with 3+2 seating so it was very crowded already at Upminster. Add an unscheduled call at Barking and it's brimmed. Why they chose to do that on a unit with less capacity I'm not sure. I also note the station announcements erroneously stated the service was formed of 4 coaches. D'oh!
It's exactly as one might expect inside, good to see they already have the route maps in and the PIS working correctly, it pretty much sums up present day c2c in general to be honest, rolling stock is excellent but the management rather less so...
Also, as much as I may lampoon how little the Electrostar family has changed over the past near-20 years, comparing the very first iteration to the very last does shine the 387s in quite a positive light. The 357s aren't bad by any means but the ride is smoother, quieter, there's far less inverter noise in the front vehicle, and of course the carpeted floor makes a difference as well to the feel of the unit. Of course, the spec is not really justified on a route like c2c but definitely welcome nonetheless for the short period they'll be serving it. One wonders whether the spec of the new units (which I am almost assuming to be 710-derived at this point) will be closer to that of the original stock or the 387s...
It's exactly as one might expect inside, good to see they already have the route maps in and the PIS working correctly, it pretty much sums up present day c2c in general to be honest, rolling stock is excellent but the management rather less so...
Also, as much as I may lampoon how little the Electrostar family has changed over the past near-20 years, comparing the very first iteration to the very last does shine the 387s in quite a positive light. The 357s aren't bad by any means but the ride is smoother, quieter, there's far less inverter noise in the front vehicle, and of course the carpeted floor makes a difference as well to the feel of the unit. Of course, the spec is not really justified on a route like c2c but definitely welcome nonetheless for the short period they'll be serving it. One wonders whether the spec of the new units (which I am almost assuming to be 710-derived at this point) will be closer to that of the original stock or the 387s...
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spark001uk
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Let's just hope they stay undamaged, I was on that route the other afternoon and in the space of a couple of hours two different 357 services were announced as having one or more coaches locked off due to vandalism. One of them at Fen had 3 staff inside frantically mopping the floor up along the whole coach.
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An 8 car 387 with 2+2 seating and wide aisles has more capacity than a 3+2 357 as there is far more standing space! Hence a sensible choice of service to use it on even if some regulars who now have to stand don't agree. Welcome to what has been happening everywhere else and will happen more in the future.
samuelmorris
Established Member
I'm not sure I agree to be honest, the vestibule areas are about the same size so you'd only gain capacity if you could stand double file in the aisles. With the seat spacing and armrests that's not actually very practical - the loathed 'metro style' 357s are a much better optimised unit for that and were an idea I actually supported. As it stands (no pun intended) the use of an 8-car 387 in place of an 8-car 357 simply moves more seated passengers into the same amount of already-busy standing space, so I can see why people are complaining, even though of course more units in service is better and I understand the reasons for it entirely.
Agreed on the vandalism, sometimes I'm embarrassed to use the route for the reprehensible behaviour of its user base. You can't tar them all with the same brush but the area does seem to have more than its fair share of unsociables.
Agreed on the vandalism, sometimes I'm embarrassed to use the route for the reprehensible behaviour of its user base. You can't tar them all with the same brush but the area does seem to have more than its fair share of unsociables.
swt_passenger
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A letter has gone out to say that Stockley to Maidenhead is to be "considered live" from 4th Feb 2017. This usually happens a few months in advance of the route being permanently energised, as it did with Tilehurst to Didcot. As seen on that route, a lot can happen in a couple of months.
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samuelmorris
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Indeed, I'm quite happy with them, but all too often when running a TOC you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
RobShipway
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It looked wired up at Burnham last Sunday when I was in the area and looked to be complete to there from Slough to the East and to Taplow to the west.
But I believe that the link between Twyford and Reading is yet to be done to the West and between Slough and Langley is still yet to be completed, which will probably happen before the end of the year, so that there is a month where the electrics can be tested with any issues resolved.
spark001uk
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Looks wired from Taplow to Burnham, from last few times I've passed. And a few bits and pieces east of Slough I believe. By bits and pieces I mean one minute I see 2 or more lines done, then the next it's just one!
Tarring them is a good suggestion. Including around the testicles and the hotter the better.
Mikey C
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I wonder if it would make more sense to reallocate some existing Electrostars to c2c, rather than another order for new stock? This would also better match the age profile of the existing trains.
For example, where are the 30 379s going?
Wivenswold
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Damage by passengers isn't a new phenomenon on the LTS. I remember a 305 coming into East Ham Depot one evening in about 1990 with human doings smeared all over a carriage. Once we'd got used to the smell and the shock of the sight that greeted us, conversation turned to how one person could have produced that much of the stuff.
spark001uk
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I did a while at Staines CHS back in the late 80s, doing nights seeing the 455s in and cleaning them. Well, those units were a new thing, and so was not having toilets on board a train, so, well you can imagine the rest. More or less everything that can come out of a human basically. Though human is far from what I'd call them.
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samuelmorris
Established Member
It would, but they'd be a year or so later than the new stock is due, it'll be 2020 at least before the 379s are spare in great numbers...
Why do people always come out with statements like that, who knows where they are going at this stage the order for replacement trains was only recently signed.
I suppose they could use 379's but their layout is more medium distance so the they would likely need to change the interior for a start, as MK2 Electrostars they are probably not that compatible with 357's anyway so they may as well go for new trains as stated in the Franchise. I guess metro style Aventra's or Desiro City's will be what they are looking for.
The requirement of the franchise is also for 17 new trains so it would mean splitting the 379 fleet.
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samuelmorris
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That's almost certainly happening anyway, I don't envisage any TOC needing exactly 30 units any time soon.
RobShipway
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I know that the London Midland fleet is more of a Desiro fleet, but I do wonder if half the fleet of class 379's go to C2C whether the remainder end up with LM?
The only other choice I see for the class 379 fleet is to be equipped with third rail shoes, then have the fleet split between Southern and South Eastern.
The only other choice I see for the class 379 fleet is to be equipped with third rail shoes, then have the fleet split between Southern and South Eastern.
D365
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Or how about the soon to be electrified 'CorPan', as I believe plans were originally for a fleet of twenty-something 377s.
Class377/5
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As D365 states, the Corby services will be needing something like 27 units IIRC of walk through design with 4/8/12 cars planned (as solid as plans can be). Don't forget that the old idea was as Thameslink needed Cauldwell depot less and less, EMT would need somewhere to look after its new 4 car electric fleet with Cauldwell not only on the line but set up for the 379 cousins, the 377/387s meaning a less money is required to introduce an 20m stock on the route (Cauldwell shed is just long enough for 4x 20m).
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cjohnson
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Also interested to know answer to this...
I must say the seat trim and colour scheme looks so much nicer on the GWR 387's than the Southern and C2C units, the Southern seat trim looks crap to be blunt. Even the Ironing board seats look more appetising
Is bizarre that it has lasted so long.... seeing as how unliked it is.
It was meant to be more longer lasting but it actually looks old quicker than other seat covers! On top of that its uncomfortable and rough.
There have been opportunities to change the fabric and colours with various "refreshes" over the last few years but nothing has been done. The unbrushed fabric must be cheaper.
Timings for the GWR 387 drags to Reading TCD are now in the allocations & diagrams forum:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2776947#post2776947
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2776947#post2776947
43096
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Correct. Although it is a false economy as better seat covers last much longer. But as we know, Southern are a company with low standards that consistently fail to achieve them.
samuelmorris
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How come so many? At current timings it's a 3h cycle with a pretty generous half hour turnaround at St Pancras, which would mean 18 units required in normal use for 12-car 2tph, they can't need more than about 22 for that can they? Or does the 110mph operation increase the journey time that much?
43096
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Is Corby wiring actually going ahead? I thought Midland Main Line electrification was to be paused (indefinitely?) but not yet announced as such yet.
43074
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Corby will be completed, yes, but the speculation is that it will be paused again once this has been done.
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