On board supervisor - Southern Rail

johnny123 said:

Hi all. I am currently moving through the application process for OBS probably based at Brighton on a 12 month fixed contract. I'm getting increasingly confused about what this role actually does and also concerned about the possibility of offending existing staff which some earlier posts in this thread refer to.

Can anyone offer any advice? Should I continue the application process or am I mad? The money seems good but I do not want to be doing a rotten job in uncomfortable circumstances.

Thanks in advance for any information or advice.

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Ignore whats being said. Although most railway staff don't want to see more trains going DOO, it would be extremely unfair to make new OBS recruits feel uncomfortable as none of this is their (your) fault.

In the unlikely event you are treated as second class citizens by other staff, it should not matter as they'll be plenty of other newly recruited OBS staff you can get friendly with, assuming ofcourse GTR actually go through with taking new staff on. The recruitment drive may just be an attempt at winning public opinion.

See the process through and do whats best for you/your family. Getting any job on the railway opens you up to internal vacancy lists so if you're not happy in the OBS role should you get it, you can always apply for other roles.

Good luck.

GadgetMan said:

Ignore whats being said. Although most railway staff don't want to see more trains going DOO, it would be extremely unfair to make new OBS recruits feel uncomfortable as none of this is their (your) fault.

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Sorry, but as I see it the advice you were given about the atmosphere being bad I would agree with. Certainly if such a thing happened at my depot, I doubt you'd be spoken to by probably 75% of the Conductors there. If you can handle it, good luck to you, but don't be thinking you'll be in for an easy ride. Although I don't have personal experience of Brighton, we have a Conductor who recently got a job at my place from Southern, based at BTN. The impression I get from her is that it's very cliquey and very old school, drivers on one side of the room, guards on the other, and ne'er the two shall meet. Good luck to you in the OBS role if you get it, you'll need thick skin.

Animosity towards people coming into the OBS role from outside the railway industry is childish and stupid. This is supposed to an adult industry, not pre-school.

New OBS entrants are not responsible for the companies' actions or the stance of the RMT.

Nor are they taking a job which hasn't already been offered to an existing conductor.

They are regular people trying to earn a crust and pay their mortgages.

Johnny123 - Ignore the naysayers and those who don't want to talk. There are plenty of friendly people on the railway with open minds who will be welcoming and happy to chat. Sit where you want in the mess room. All this bulls*it about separate tables. It's 2016 not 1976. What are they gonna do, physically move you? PMSL.

Opinion is divided on the longevity of the OBS role. The twelve month contract suggests it might be "reviewed" after then (interpret that as you will).

Thank you to all who have answered. You've supplied some very useful information and advice. There's obviously much to think about with this new job and it clearly goes further than just the work itself. I am still waiting for an interview date so it looks like being some time before I have to make any decision.

I may be showing my total railway ignorance with this one but isn't it rather a solitary job anyway? I mean once you're on board your train isn't it just you and the passengers? How much interaction with other staff actually occurs? Outside of the lunch room I mean.

I do feel sorry for anyone applying for these positions. There will undoubtedly be animosity towards the role because of what has happened, and the uncertainty of the longevity of the role must be awkward as well. What ever you decide Johnny I wish you the best.

plastictaffy said:

Sorry, but as I see it the advice you were given about the atmosphere being bad I would agree with. Certainly if such a thing happened at my depot, I doubt you'd be spoken to by probably 75% of the Conductors there....

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Wow, that's interesting, shocking and shows that clearly, things need to change. I certainly hope they do.
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GadgetMan said:

...In the unlikely event you are treated as second class citizens by other staff, it should not matter as they'll be plenty of other newly recruited OBS staff you can get friendly with,....

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Indeed, I wouldn't worry too much.

yorkie said:

Wow, that's interesting, shocking and shows that clearly, things need to change. I certainly hope they do.

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So, if you had fought tooth and nail for the last year for elements of your job you deemed crucial, you'd welcome the people that represented the change you'd been fighting with open arms?

Now I don't disagree that everyone should be respected at work but human nature says that isn't going to happen.

grumblingalong said:

So, if you had fought tooth and nail for the last year for elements of your job you deemed crucial, you'd welcome the people that represented the change you'd been fighting with open arms?

Now I don't disagree that everyone should be respected at work but human nature says that isn't going to happen.

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You've answered your own question, and I don't disagree either.

At my workplace there may be people who think certain jobs shouldn't exist, but they would absolutely not behave in the manner described in post #32, which is archaic, pathetic, childish and unwarranted.

Such workplace atmospheres must be rare these days and need to be eradicated.

I don't know if it'll be quite as bad as some are making out. I can see it being more difficult for new starter OBS from outside the railway to integrate, but I can't see individuals in this position personally being treated badly. At worst 'the old Guard' just might not have much to do with the new ones, but this can sometimes be the case for new starters anyway if you/they don't make an effort to integrate themselves. It'll probably just be a time thing.

At the end of the day, both the new and old OBS will share one thing, that they're likely both going to get f***ed over eventually. With the 12 month contract, the grief will probably come first to the new OBS, so new and old will be able to unite over that at least!

IKB said:

Sit where you want in the mess room. All this bulls*it about separate tables. It's 2016 not 1976. What are they gonna do, physically move you? PMSL.

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I understand why you'd say that but I don't know if I'd go along with it. Anyone can do what they like, sit where you like, but if you want to integrate, as a new starter I wouldn't deliberately go and take a seat where you know the old hand drivers sit, for instance. You're highly unlikely to integrate with them as a new starter OBS, Guard or even Driver, and it will only be counter productive when it comes to getting on with people who'd likely be more receptive to you!

I've seen this kind of thing happen in a couple of places I've worked. It isn't right, as IKB said earlier it's childish and stupid, but I also think it's human nature.

I was looked down at in one job because I hadn't worked my way into the role in what some though was the 'correct' manner. A few would not speak top me at all, and others would make pointed remarks to their friends when I was within earshot, but hey, they are the sadder people.

After about a year it was all forgotten because all my colleagues realised what a brilliant, hard working and thoroughly decent guy I am

yorkie said:

At my workplace there may be people who think certain jobs shouldn't exist, but they would absolutely not behave in the manner described in post #32, which is archaic, pathetic, childish and unwarranted.

Such workplace atmospheres must be rare these days and need to be eradicated.

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We had these attitudes in the police when Blunkett introduced PCSOs (aka plastic cops) as many cops were opposed the creation of the role There is similar opposition in some parts to the Special Constable role as it's a volunteer plugging a gap that should be filled by a full time paid constable. Some cops spoke down to theses guys and gals, which said more about them than it did about the PCSOs/SCs. The vast majority of us were perfectly civil and welcoming on a human level, as it should be.

the sniper said:

I understand why you'd say that but I don't know if I'd go along with it. Anyone can do what they like, sit where you like, but if you want to integrate, as a new starter I wouldn't deliberately go and take a seat where you know the old hand drivers sit, for instance. You're highly unlikely to integrate with them as a new starter OBS, Guard or even Driver, and it will only be counter productive when it comes to getting on with people who'd likely be more receptive to you!

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During yesteryear this nonsense existed in the police too - old hand advanced drivers on one table, probationers on the other etc. It's largely been eradicated now as workplaces become more professionalised and less hierarchical.

Who cares if a driver thinks you should sit somewhere else? Would you really want to get to know people with such narrow minds? A new OBS (who has no input into the operation of the train) will have little contact with them anyway. I'd have far more respect for someone who stood their ground and isn't intimidated by such ridiculous behaviour. This must be a location specific problem as it doesn't exist where I work.

Greenback said:

I've seen this kind of thing happen in a couple of places I've worked. It isn't right, as IKB said earlier it's childish and stupid, but I also think it's human nature.

I was looked down at in one job because I hadn't worked my way into the role in what some though was the 'correct' manner. A few would not speak top me at all, and others would make pointed remarks to their friends when I was within earshot, but hey, they are the sadder people.

After about a year it was all forgotten because all my colleagues realised what a brilliant, hard working and thoroughly decent guy I am

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Sounds like a good example of "group think". And no doubt when they realised that you were a good guy, they expected you to completely forget all of their earlier hostility. Hmmm!

IKB said:

This must be a location specific problem as it doesn't exist where I work.

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Must be, I've personally experienced it myself at a depot on the route I sign, and heard of it happening at another depot on the route I don't sign. It still happens, believe me.

I expect its temporary as Southern don't know how many existing staff will be staying in employment. I imagine if all existing staff stayed, then all these 'new' staff won't be having their contracts made permanent (or maybe some may be kept on to fill existing gaps). Any existing staff who 'move on' may give some of these new staff an opportunity to apply for permanent contracts.

plastictaffy said:

Must be, I've personally experienced it myself at a depot on the route I sign, and heard of it happening at another depot on the route I don't sign. It still happens, believe me.

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Certainly doesn't happen anywhere near as much as it used to at Southern - indeed, Brighton is the only example of a depot/messroom I can think of where it does happen to quite that extent. In fact, in a lot of other places you'd probably be laughed out of the room for trying it, so it goes the other way too! I dread to think what would happen if somebody decided there were separate tables at Selhurst or London Bridge, for example...

There are even some crew from other depots who simply won't go in a messroom like that, because they don't like the alienation, no matter the length of their break. It's a shame because somewhere like Brighton station is a fine old building with decent enough facilities and plenty of staff coming and going, so with the right atmosphere it should be an enjoyable place for a break. Alas, just... no! Many would rather freeze themselves to death in the portakabin at Haywards Heath.

Remember that some conductors have actually mentored OBSs and many others will try their best to support them or have a chat about any concerns, given that the situation has basically degenerated into one big melting pot of jobs, responsibilities and uncertainty. I don't blame those OBSs who do have something of a lack of confidence, or don't like the content of their new roles, but there are many crew they will be able to talk to.

Greenback said:

I've seen this kind of thing happen in a couple of places I've worked. It isn't right, as IKB said earlier it's childish and stupid, but I also think it's human nature.

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Absolutely.

I'm not sure why anyone should accept being told to just welcome the new arrivals whose very role threatened their very own job security. Some degree of alienation is quite understandable.

At the end of the day, one needs to do what is best for oneself. You will not be friends with everyone, but it probably won't be a good idea going into a depot where you are seen as public enemy number one (as you never know when you need someone to do you a favour - and we all do from time to time), although I seriously doubt it would be the case at any depot, even at Southern. One might run into a few less welcoming types more than elsewhere, but there will more than likely be a few people one can get on with.

As someone else mentioned above, if you have thick skin, go for it. It won't necessarily stand you in better shape for a driving position in the future, but it is working in an industry doing something you love, right?

Will selected depots do selected routes or do all routes

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Metobusfan said:

Will selected depots do selected routes or do all routes

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I'm an OBS based at Eastbourne and I do the Brighton - Vic mainline, the Vic - Lbg long loop and the Vic to Horsham via Leatherhead.