GWR Class 800

swt_passenger · 30 Oct 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
Well GWR use HSTs down to Weymouth in the summer, once their HSTs start to leave they might want to use a IEP on the route

The routes in the GW area that are to be cleared for IEP have been in the public domain for about 3 or 4 years, (CP5 enhancement milestones) and definitely don't include Yeovil Pen Mill to Weymouth, but do include Castle Cary to Exeter.

Using HSTs down there is not a long term solution, it is a short term thing to deal with a lack of suitable DMUs.

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leomartin125 · 30 Oct 2016

D1009 said:
Yesterday there were 3 5 car class 800s visible at Stoke Gifford, two of which appeared to be coupled, the other was the green one.

The two coupled would be 800001 & 800003 which are both in Hitachi white with branding, not to be confused with 800002 which has the one end that is red branded. The other would be 800004 which hasn't done by the sounds of things, not many pictures of her out and about.

I reckon 800001 and 800003 would be the ones to venture to Plymouth, first time for both units.

D1009 · 2 Nov 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
Well GWR use HSTs down to Weymouth in the summer, once their HSTs start to leave they might want to use a IEP on the route

Well you mentioned mileage accumulation, which if necessary would be far more efficiently done on a faster route with greater capacity. Once the electrification is complete there will be more DMU vehicles cascaded to the Bristol area, making the use of intercity stock to Weymouth on high days and holidays less likely.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

leomartin125 said:
The two coupled would be 800001 & 800003 which are both in Hitachi white with branding, not to be confused with 800002 which has the one end that is red branded. The other would be 800004 which hasn't done by the sounds of things, not many pictures of her out and about.

I reckon 800001 and 800003 would be the ones to venture to Plymouth, first time for both units.

Seems from a Youtube video that 800001 and 800002 are the sets in use in the west this week. Has 800003 moved from Merchants Park yet?

leomartin125 · 3 Nov 2016

D1009 said:
Well you mentioned mileage accumulation, which if necessary would be far more efficiently done on a faster route with greater capacity. Once the electrification is complete there will be more DMU vehicles cascaded to the Bristol area, making the use of intercity stock to Weymouth on high days and holidays less likely.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Seems from a Youtube video that 800001 and 800002 are the sets in use in the west this week. Has 800003 moved from Merchants Park yet?

At Stoke Gifford IEP Depot Currently:

800001 (5 Car IEP 800/0 - Hitachi White Branded)
800002 (5 Car IEP 800/0 - Hitachi White and Red Vinyl Branded)
800003 (5 Car IEP 800/0 - Hitachi White Branded)
800004 (5 Car IEP 800/0 - GWR Branded)

No IEP's are currently at North Pole IEP Depot (ironically it's full of Electrostars instead, North Pole Electrostar Depot!)

800101 (9 Car IEP 800/1 - Virgin Azuma Branded) is currently at Merchant Park Sidings for ECML testing.

800301 (9 Car IEP 800/3 - For GWR in Hitachi White Branding) is currently at Merchant Park with the final set of coaches being manufactured.

Hope this answers your question.

D1009 · 14 Nov 2016

5X82 1757 Southall to Bristol Parkway

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97223/2016/11/14/advanced

An unusual move taking place during the GW evening peak tonight.

leomartin125 · 15 Nov 2016

D1009 said:
5X82 1757 Southall to Bristol Parkway

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97223/2016/11/14/advanced

An unusual move taking place during the GW evening peak tonight.

No IEP moves are 'unusual'. They all take place at a time and place that is required for testing the set. This was merely another visit to Bristol Parkway which started at Southall because it was returning from Watton at Stone doing ERTMS testing. Much easier than sending it to North Pole just to take it out again an hour later to head to Bristol.

On another note, GWR want to start sending the IEP's to Worcester and Hereford from Summer 2017, yet not one IEP has ever been North of Didcot, let alone Oxford. I expect a lot of Cotswold testing will need to be done to reach this target date, which at the moment seems quite unachievable.

D1009 · 15 Nov 2016

leomartin125 said:
No IEP moves are 'unusual'. They all take place at a time and place that is required for testing the set.

I agree, but what was unusual was it slowly leaving Southall Yard down the main line causing delay to peak time services running at 3-5 min headways.

cactustwirly · 15 Nov 2016

leomartin125 said:
No IEP moves are 'unusual'. They all take place at a time and place that is required for testing the set. This was merely another visit to Bristol Parkway which started at Southall because it was returning from Watton at Stone doing ERTMS testing. Much easier than sending it to North Pole just to take it out again an hour later to head to Bristol.

On another note, GWR want to start sending the IEP's to Worcester and Hereford from Summer 2017, yet not one IEP has ever been North of Didcot, let alone Oxford. I expect a lot of Cotswold testing will need to be done to reach this target date, which at the moment seems quite unachievable.

The testing is for mileage accumulation and isn't route specific.
It doesn't take long for a train to be cleared for a route, it's just a tick box exercise to make sure the train fits.

gsnedders · 16 Nov 2016

cactustwirly said:
It doesn't take long for a train to be cleared for a route, it's just a tick box exercise to make sure the train fits.

And make sure it interacts with the infrastructure correctly! (c.f., the problems with the 92s!)

Typhoon_93 · 16 Nov 2016

800301 (9 Car IEP 800/3 - For GWR in Hitachi White Branding) is currently at Merchant Park with the final set of coaches being manufactured.

The seven coaches in the yard at Merchant Park are Class 801 and were originally destined for GWR but were built before GWR changed there order to Class 800 Bi-modes so are now being diverted to the first VTEC Class 801. The remaining two coaches are due in a couple of weeks.

The first Aycliffe assembled Class 800 is due out on test within the next few weeks believed to be 800005.

leomartin125 · 16 Nov 2016

Typhoon_93 said:
800301 (9 Car IEP 800/3 - For GWR in Hitachi White Branding) is currently at Merchant Park with the final set of coaches being manufactured.

The seven coaches in the yard at Merchant Park are Class 801 and were originally destined for GWR but were built before GWR changed there order to Class 800 Bi-modes so are now being diverted to the first VTEC Class 801. The remaining two coaches are due in a couple of weeks.

The first Aycliffe assembled Class 800 is due out on test within the next few weeks believed to be 800005.

So hang on, those seven coaches were part of 800301, so where has this random 'First VTEC 801' come from? If those coaches are like you say, for a VTEC 801, then what are you going on about with 800301? Surely 800301 wouldn't have been manufactured at all if those coaches are for VTEC and part of an 801 set not an 800...

I'm confused.

Typhoon_93 · 16 Nov 2016

Ok I'am new to this forum so will try to explain.

The first bit about 800301 was not from me It was from a earlier post in the thread.

I was just saying the coaches in the yard that are listed as being part of 800301 are not. The confusion has occurred because the coaches in the yard have delivery labels in the windows with the numbers on that would show them as being part of the first GWR class 801 801001 but as there order has now changed to bi-modes it was generally believed that these would just become 800301. However because these were built before the order changed they are Class 801 stock not Class 800 so this is why they have been diverted to VTEC's first Class 801.

As far as I'am aware no parts of 800301 have been delivered into the UK yet, however most of the shells to form the GWR class 800/0 order are here with all 5 shells for 800034 being noted in the Hitachi compound at Tees Port last week.

Hope that helps... or have I just made it worse...

Norwich317 · 16 Nov 2016

Posts 3126 and 3127 of this thread ID`d the vehicles as 826001, 827001, 828001 and 829001(vehicles for 801001). The label on 829001 also ID'd it as IEP037 which according to the delivery schedule is Train 37, the first electric train which should have been to be delivered to GWR with a scheduled acceptance date of 15th February 2018. So it looks like Typhoon 93`s info is correct.

Info for vehicle numbers comes from Platform 5 "Locomotives & Coaching Stock 2016"

800001 · 16 Nov 2016

And here is a pic from today, of the above mentioned 7 coaches. Looks like some testing going on, on the 4 carriages, as lights on.

leomartin125 · 16 Nov 2016

Typhoon_93 said:
Ok I'am new to this forum so will try to explain.

The first bit about 800301 was not from me It was from a earlier post in the thread.

I was just saying the coaches in the yard that are listed as being part of 800301 are not. The confusion has occurred because the coaches in the yard have delivery labels in the windows with the numbers on that would show them as being part of the first GWR class 801 801001 but as there order has now changed to bi-modes it was generally believed that these would just become 800301. However because these were built before the order changed they are Class 801 stock not Class 800 so this is why they have been diverted to VTEC's first Class 801.

As far as I'am aware no parts of 800301 have been delivered into the UK yet, however most of the shells to form the GWR class 800/0 order are here with all 5 shells for 800034 being noted in the Hitachi compound at Tees Port last week.

Hope that helps... or have I just made it worse...

Thanks for explaining. Reason I want to know is that I believe with GWR wanting to commence IEP operations from July 2017, that there won't be any 9 car IEP's in operation at that point, only five cars. I just hope they make this target, even with a five car IEP, that is better than a 180 that fails over and over again. If GWR was to prioritise which routes need the IEP first, personally I believe Worcester Forgate Street and Great Malvern, also Moreton in Marsh should be top of the list. Unlike the HST's, the 180's fail. They should be replaced first. I bet top dollar however, Bristol will get them first, and GWR will continue using 180's despite their severe unreliability.

RobShipway · 17 Nov 2016

leomartin125 said:
Thanks for explaining. Reason I want to know is that I believe with GWR wanting to commence IEP operations from July 2017, that there won't be any 9 car IEP's in operation at that point, only five cars. I just hope they make this target, even with a five car IEP, that is better than a 180 that fails over and over again. If GWR was to prioritise which routes need the IEP first, personally I believe Worcester Forgate Street and Great Malvern, also Moreton in Marsh should be top of the list. Unlike the HST's, the 180's fail. They should be replaced first. I bet top dollar however, Bristol will get them first, and GWR will continue using 180's despite their severe unreliability.

Unless it has been changed again, I believe the most recent plan is to be running the class 800 5 car bi-modes in pairs to Bristol, when they are introduced next year to replace the HST's which need to be taken out of service to be refurbished for use with Scotrail towards the end of next year.

leomartin125 · 17 Nov 2016

Robbies said:
Unless it has been changed again, I believe the most recent plan is to be running the class 800 5 car bi-modes in pairs to Bristol, when they are introduced next year to replace the HST's which need to be taken out of service to be refurbished for use with Scotrail towards the end of next year.

Sending the IEP's to the Cotswolds is definitely in their plan for Summer 2017, and I can't deny it, they need IEP's there much more than Bristol. The HST's can last a few more months waiting, the 180's are dreadful and need to be gone.

Mordac · 17 Nov 2016

leomartin125 said:
Thanks for explaining. Reason I want to know is that I believe with GWR wanting to commence IEP operations from July 2017, that there won't be any 9 car IEP's in operation at that point, only five cars. I just hope they make this target, even with a five car IEP, that is better than a 180 that fails over and over again. If GWR was to prioritise which routes need the IEP first, personally I believe Worcester Forgate Street and Great Malvern, also Moreton in Marsh should be top of the list. Unlike the HST's, the 180's fail. They should be replaced first. I bet top dollar however, Bristol will get them first, and GWR will continue using 180's despite their severe unreliability.

I think the 180s have to go to Grand Central, so they'll go first.

Doctor Fegg · 17 Nov 2016

Old Oak have done wonders for the reliability of the 180s. I'm sure someone better-informed will have the availability numbers, but anecdotally I see as many HST failures here in the Cotswolds as I do 180s.

JN114 · 17 Nov 2016

The 180s will go first - indeed GW goes down to 4 units from December.

That doesn't mean the 800s will end up on the Cotswold first. The two are not dependent on each other.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

leomartin125 said:
Sending the IEP's to the Cotswolds is definitely in their plan for Summer 2017, and I can't deny it, they need IEP's there much more than Bristol. The HST's can last a few more months waiting, the 180's are dreadful and need to be gone.

We'll see what comes out of the woodwork, but this "definite" plan is new to myself and my colleagues, and completely at odds with planned driver training and so forth. Is this perhaps where you /think/ they'll end up? If so "definitely their plan" is a poor choice of words.

While there have been 2 or 3 high profile failures of late, 180 reliability and availability is higher than HSTs.

RobShipway · 17 Nov 2016

JN114 said:
The 180s will go first - indeed GW goes down to 4 units from December.

That doesn't mean the 800s will end up on the Cotswold first. The two are not dependent on each other.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We'll see what comes out of the woodwork, but this "definite" plan is new to myself and my colleagues, and completely at odds with planned driver training and so forth. Is this perhaps where you /think/ they'll end up? If so "definitely their plan" is a poor choice of words.

While there have been 2 or 3 high profile failures of late, 180 reliability and availability is higher than HSTs.

The above is why I am suspecting that HST's from the services to Bristol will go first, as I believe the HST's are needed to be refurbished and be with Scotrail sooner than the Class 180's are needed to be with Grand Central.

JN114 · 17 Nov 2016

Robbies said:
The above is why I am suspecting that HST's from the services to Bristol will go first, as I believe the HST's are needed to be refurbished and be with Scotrail sooner than the Class 180's are needed to be with Grand Central.

Bottom line there's a lot of speculation as to what might be done, in reality the situation is very fluid. The cascade plan has been heavily disrupted by the recent electrification deferrals.

jimm · 17 Nov 2016

leomartin125 said:
Thanks for explaining. Reason I want to know is that I believe with GWR wanting to commence IEP operations from July 2017, that there won't be any 9 car IEP's in operation at that point, only five cars. I just hope they make this target, even with a five car IEP, that is better than a 180 that fails over and over again. If GWR was to prioritise which routes need the IEP first, personally I believe Worcester Forgate Street and Great Malvern, also Moreton in Marsh should be top of the list. Unlike the HST's, the 180's fail. They should be replaced first. I bet top dollar however, Bristol will get them first, and GWR will continue using 180's despite their severe unreliability.

I do wonder sometimes if you read other people's posts.

Back on October 15 - page 207 of this thread, post 3096 - Clarence Yard, who is pretty well informed on the GWR rolling stock situation, posted the following, which made clear that first use of 800s will be in 2x5 formations on Bristol services:

Clarence Yard said:
That was the original plan, to replace the 180 units first. The introduction date was going to be 10/07/17. Then it was double units on the HST diagrams that would have ended as requiring diesels with the 9 car electrics coming in last on the HST South Wales and Bristol only diagrams. May 2018 when Swansea was first due to be switched on was crucial in the electric IEP introduction.

The NR infrastructure issues saw that plan ripped up late last year. The 10 cars will now start first, on the Bristol and South Wales HST diagrams, first day in traffic was 24/07/17. The 180 sets would go with the December 2017 timetable (replaced by 5 car 800 sets - 4 diagrams) and the 9 cars, now bi-mode, would go on the HST diagrams that work the North and South Cots. 10 car working on those lines is out, till at least Dec 2018.

At every timetable change the HST diagrams are altered to suit the incoming 800 units, which have a completely different maintenance regime to comply with. That means it isn't one in, one out as you need more long 800 units diagrammed than equivalent HST sets to comply with the TARA maintenance regime which requires longer downtimes than the HST sets. As you have to operate long trains in the pre Dec 2018 timetables (apart from the existing 180 workings) you can't cheat on this by going load 5 vice an HST.

The 24/07/17 date is now pants thanks to the GW test section being delayed. Agility has told the DfT that the units (both GW and EC) will now be delivered at least 3 months late because of this (apparently they can do this in their contract) and this is causing everyone grief as the HST cascade to Scotland means these units have to enter service on GW during 2017. There are some high level discussions going on at the moment to try and sort this king size mess out.

Incidentally, going "full chat" on the IEP engines may sort out some of the potential timing issues on the diesel sections but the fuel consumption goes through the roof as a result. That affects the ability to complete a days work without having to go to depot sometime during the day, depending on the diagram. That is another issue that is being currently looked into as well as the effect of having to slightly decelerate some existing HST services in advance of introducing 800 units on them.

The only current good news is that any potential delay to the Agility units doesn't affect the 802 deliveries - that is a different contract, with Hitachi only and FG are in full control of that one.

And on the same page in post 3101, he added:

The released HST units go to Scotland. The May 2017 HST diagrams are designed specially for the introduction of the 800 sets on the Bristol/South Wales routes so it will be 2 x 800 replacing one HST, which then goes to Scotland, via conversion. Currently October is the planned introduction to service month, with 2 HST diagrams going on the first day.

December 2017 is when they are due to go onto the North Cots, in single 5 car formations, just replacing the 180 diagrams. The December 2017 HST diagrams are altered again from May 2017 to cope with the introduction of the remaining 5 cars (in 10 car formations) on the Bristol/South Wales runs. Some of these 10 cars will go load 5 at the country end, to places like Taunton, WSM and Carmarthen.

Again, all the released HST units in this phase are due to go to Scotland, via conversion. However if the (unlikely) opportunity arises to fit a GWR GTI conversion into that part of the Scottish conversion programme, it will be taken.

Clarence Yard · 17 Nov 2016

And that still is the plan. However........

Something (not the deferral) has recently arisen that may upset things a bit. There has been a bit of (obviously now public) speculation about a change that may have to be made as a result of that "something" and the Cotswolds has been but one part of that speculation, despite it being the least developed in terms of readiness for full length IEP operation.

Options are being looked at before a final high level DfT/FG decision is taken but nothing has been decided yet. It may well be that the current plan remains as is but in the wacky world of the IEP, as they used to say in Stingray, "anything can happen in the next half hour"!!

D1048 · 18 Nov 2016

Does anyone know which set was parked up at Filton Triangle/Stoke Gifford depot yesterday afternoon?

Thanks.

D1009 · 18 Nov 2016

D1048 said:
Does anyone know which set was parked up at Filton Triangle/Stoke Gifford depot yesterday afternoon?

Thanks.

Yes, it was 800001 which is the set which has been involved in the GW testing over the last couple of weeks.

The interiors of the coaches in it are empty shells with weights to simulate loadings, apart from the end vehicles which have test equipment installed.

deltic08 · 18 Nov 2016

leomartin125 said:
Sending the IEP's to the Cotswolds is definitely in their plan for Summer 2017, and I can't deny it, they need IEP's there much more than Bristol. The HST's can last a few more months waiting, the 180's are dreadful and need to be gone.

Will this release any 165/166 units for cascade?

Clarence Yard · 19 Nov 2016

deltic08 said:
Will this release any 165/166 units for cascade?

The Turbos are released to the west by 387 units.

Orchid · 19 Nov 2016

Robbies said:
The above is why I am suspecting that HST's from the services to Bristol will go first, as I believe the HST's are needed to be refurbished and be with Scotrail sooner than the Class 180's are needed to be with Grand Central.

When are the 180s due to be with GC, and is there a plan for the displaced GC HSTs?

jopsuk · 19 Nov 2016

Orchid said:
is there a plan for the displaced GC HSTs?

GWR Class 800

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