Cambridge to Holyhead

tivoli · 16 Nov 2016

Thinking about travelling to Castlebar in Ireland at short notice, I am getting too old to do the whole overnight SailRail package, so look to stay overnight in Holyhead and sail the next morning.

Clearly ferry and Irish Rail fares would make it more expensive, however, CBG to HHD with a railcard is around £70/80 but SailRail to Dublin is only £43. What is to stop me buying the SailRail ticket and not using it beyond Holyhead?

RailUK Forums

Gareth Marston · 16 Nov 2016

tivoli said:
Thinking about travelling to Castlebar in Ireland at short notice, I am getting too old to do the whole overnight SailRail package, so look to stay overnight in Holyhead and sail the next morning.

Clearly ferry and Irish Rail fares would make it more expensive, however, CBG to HHD with a railcard is around £70/80 but SailRail to Dublin is only £43. What is to stop me buying the SailRail ticket and not using it beyond Holyhead?

Holyhead is an open station and theirs a reasonably newish Travelodge is easy walking distance of it.

Bangor to Castlebar SailRail is £62.50

Hadders · 16 Nov 2016

You should be obtain a through ticket with an overnight break of journey with the ferry and Irish rail connections continuing the next day. You might struggle to get it on line but a competent booking clerk should be able to do it.

A Cambridge to Castlebar journey with an overnight break of journey is quite reasonable.

tivoli · 16 Nov 2016

Hadders said:
You should be obtain a through ticket with an overnight break of journey with the ferry and Irish rail connections continuing the next day. You might struggle to get it on line but a competent booking clerk should be able to do it.

A Cambridge to Castlebar journey with an overnight break of journey is quite reasonable.

That makes sense, will check at local station for advice. In practice last time I made this journey, (from Waterbeach) the only time my SailRail ticket was checked was boarding the ferry at Holyhead, no closed barriers or physical checks on trains.

James Wake · 16 Nov 2016

It is doable in one day with no overnight stay Monday-Friday, but it might be worth getting a taxi from the port to Heuston (which the Man in Seat 61 suggests would take around 25 mins).

0715 Cambridge to Kings Cross arr 0807
Transfer to Euston
0910 Virgin Train to Holyhead
1410 Irish Ferry Ulysses to Dublin Port (or the earlier Stena Adventurer departure and then use a Taxi to Heuston)
Taxi to Heuston (or 1735 bus arriving at 1810)
1815 train to Castlebar arriving 2059.

However it does seem that Virgin won't offer a journey plan like that probably due to the tight connection in Dublin.

Gareth Marston · 16 Nov 2016

Hadders said:
You should be obtain a through ticket with an overnight break of journey with the ferry and Irish rail connections continuing the next day. You might struggle to get it on line but a competent booking clerk should be able to do it.

A Cambridge to Castlebar journey with an overnight break of journey is quite reasonable.

However SailRail tickets are valid on date of travel only and break of journey is not permissible except for connection purposes.

Hadders · 16 Nov 2016

Gareth Marston said:
However SailRail tickets are valid on date of travel only and break of journey is not permissible except for connection purposes.

How is a passenger supposed to make a journey such as Wick to Limerick in one day?

bangor-toad · 16 Nov 2016

Gareth Marston said:
However SailRail tickets are valid on date of travel only and break of journey is not permissible except for connection purposes.

As a fairly frequent user of SailRail tickets I can add a few of points:

1. Getting the tickets can be surprisingly challenging, especially if it's anything more complex than a UK station to an Irish/NI port. It can be done but stay calm and patient

2. Single tickets are for day of use only but there are many journeys where you can't do it in a single day. Earlier this year I did a Belfast - Liverpool - Southampton trip on the overnight ferry. The ticket was dated on the day I left Belfast but I had no trouble using the ticket the next morning travelling from Liverpool to Southampton.

3. If you buy a return ticket though you get three days to complete the outwards journey. Whilst there are break of journey restrictions you should be able to get a (good) booking clerk to reserve the ferry on day 2.

Have a good trip,
Mr Toad

tivoli · 16 Nov 2016

I do realise that tickets for longer journeys would have to be valid for the following day for onward travel following an overnight sailing. But I wonder how much knowledge of the journey an inspector might need to know about sailings or travel on the other side of the water to ascertain what was a reasonable amount of time to complete the journey uninterrupted. Indeed adding 2 hour extra time for changing trains would really elongate the journey planner time.

Considering a taxi from Dublin Port to Heuston, I would be loath to allow such a tight connection, a late arrival of the boat or the roadworks on the Luas extension could easily mess that up.

I suppose I am looking at comfort over price with a break at Holyhead but if there is a way of reducing the cost then that makes sense. Overlapping SailRail tickets from Cambridge to Dublin port and from Bangor to Castlebar would seem to work but it is abusing the system, is it not?

Hadders · 16 Nov 2016

If you want to split then I suggest splitting at Dublin and staying overnight there, then resuming the following day on Irish Rail.

In fact a couple of years ago I made a journey from Stevenage to Galway and it was actually cheaper to split at Dublin than pay the through SailRail fare. I used an Irish Rail advance ticket to travel between Dublin and Galway and I seem to remember they had more flexibility than British Advance fares too.

krus_aragon · 16 Nov 2016

bangor-toad said:
If you buy a return ticket though you get three days to complete the outwards journey. Whilst there are break of journey restrictions you should be able to get a (good) booking clerk to reserve the ferry on day 2.

Are return tickets still available? SailRail tickets to Dublin (Stenna and I.F.) are now only available as singles, ad far as I know.

bkhtele · 16 Nov 2016

I have used the standby flexible single ticket & broken the journey at Holyhead travel lodge without difficulty. Virgin accepted the ticket without question. Best buy at station say mid morning when they have time to work out how to sell the ticket. Or buy in Euston where they sell them all the time.

Flying Snail · 17 Nov 2016

James Wake said:
It is doable in one day with no overnight stay Monday-Friday, but it might be worth getting a taxi from the port to Heuston (which the Man in Seat 61 suggests would take around 25 mins).

0715 Cambridge to Kings Cross arr 0807
Transfer to Euston
0910 Virgin Train to Holyhead
1410 Irish Ferry Ulysses to Dublin Port (or the earlier Stena Adventurer departure and then use a Taxi to Heuston)
Taxi to Heuston (or 1735 bus arriving at 1810)
1815 train to Castlebar arriving 2059.

However it does seem that Virgin won't offer a journey plan like that probably due to the tight connection in Dublin.

They are right not to, at that time even if the ferry is on time I wouldn't be confident of making that connection on a weekday. Even in a taxi it wouldn't be guaranteed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

tivoli said:
Thinking about travelling to Castlebar in Ireland at short notice, I am getting too old to do the whole overnight SailRail package, so look to stay overnight in Holyhead and sail the next morning.

Clearly ferry and Irish Rail fares would make it more expensive, however, CBG to HHD with a railcard is around £70/80 but SailRail to Dublin is only £43. What is to stop me buying the SailRail ticket and not using it beyond Holyhead?

It is crazy not to use the sail rail for both UK train and ship, a single HHD - Dublin port is £31/34/36.

Hadders · 17 Nov 2016

Flying Snail said:
They are right not to, at that time even if the ferry is on time I wouldn't be confident of making that connection on a weekday. Even in a taxi it wouldn't be guaranteed.

I've done that connection using the bus that meets the ferry and made the train easily. I seem to remember getting an itinerary from wherever I purchased it from - this was probably the station as that's where I'd have purchased SailRail tickets from.

Goatboy · 17 Nov 2016

Gareth Marston said:
However SailRail tickets are valid on date of travel only and break of journey is not permissible except for connection purposes.

Making an overnight stay doesn't count as a BOJ though, does it?

John @ home · 17 Nov 2016

Gareth Marston said:
break of journey is not permissible except for connection purposes.

Goatboy said:
Making an overnight stay doesn't count as a BOJ though, does it?

We don't know.

We know that the previous Conditions did not count this as a break of journey.

National Rail Conditions of Carriage (until 30 September 2016)

16. ... For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your journey if you leave a Train Companys or Rail Service Companys stations after you start your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Companys staff.

But this definition has not been carried forward into the National Rail Conditions of Travel, effective from 1 October 2016. These new Conditions do not contain a definition of a break of journey. The closest to a definition is:

National Rail Conditions of Travel (from 1 October 2016)

16.2 Most Tickets allow you to break your journey. This means that you do not have to make the whole of your journey at the same time or, where allowed, on the same day.

This is defective because it does not cope with the situation where a ticket is sold with a validity "ON DATE SHOWN" but it is not possible to complete the journey on the date shown on the ticket. An example is the £65.50 SailRail Standby Single Wick - Cork City (CIE) route Holyhead Irish Ferries CIV.

I seems to me that this cannot be resolved without a change in the National Rail Conditions of Travel or a change in the ticket conditions for very long journeys.

Paul Kelly · 17 Nov 2016

Hadders said:
I've done that connection using the bus that meets the ferry and made the train easily. I seem to remember getting an itinerary from wherever I purchased it from - this was probably the station as that's where I'd have purchased SailRail tickets from.

It seems really tight to me. I've used the bus off the afternoon Irish Ferries sailing a few times and it got to Connolly station about 18:05, so I really doubt the passengers going through to Heuston would have made it in time for an 18:15 departure.

iknowyeah · 19 Nov 2016

Not really relevant to this, but could I use a priv on a MAN-Cork journey?

Flying Snail · 19 Nov 2016

iknowyeah said:
Not really relevant to this, but could I use a priv on a MAN-Cork journey?

Priv is not available on sailrail fares.

Depending on your status you may be entitled to ship and Irish Rail priv rates which will have to be bought separately.

Holyhead - Dublin ferry is approx £8-10 one way.

IE Dublin Heuston - Cork approx €16 single, €22 return (75% off full fares)

No discount on Port-City bus link or LUAS tram Connolly - Heuston.

bkhtele · 20 Nov 2016

iknowyeah said:
Not really relevant to this, but could I use a priv on a MAN-Cork journey?

Could apply for a Irish rail coupon if you have a FIP card (after 1 year service usually) valid for travel in Southern Ireland free

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