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High local fares on Far North Line

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ashworth

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Earlier this year I was on holiday up near Helmsdale in the far North East of Scotland. I considered using the train for a couple of relatively local days out but couldn't believe how high the fares were for relatively short journeys on the Far North Line.

Despite its slow and long journey time of nearly 4 hours from Inverness to Thurso I still think that £26.50 for a Day Return for the whole distance even to Wick is good value considering the distance involved. I could not therefore believe that from where we were staying in Helmsdale at least three quarters of the distance up the line and only just over an hour to Thurso the fare was only £4 less than from Inverness at £21.50!
It was no better going south with a relatively local, short journey for that line of only 50 minutes to Lairg being £20.50 return! Don't they want people to make local intermediate journeys on that line? I can't imagine the locals ever using the train and it's certainly not very attractive for tourism at those prices. The lady who owned our holiday cottage said that she has occasionally used the train to go to Inverness, she doesn't know of anyone locally who uses it for shorter journeys because of the high fares.

I remember a similar situation a few years ago when staying at Barrhill in the South West of Scotland and the fare for the local jourrney of approx 30 minutes into Stranraer was around £15 return which totally discouraged the locals from using the train for shopping trips. Why do they charge such high local fares on these lines which are struggling to survive?
 
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yorkie

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Why do they charge such high local fares on these lines which are struggling to survive?
I think the intention is to charge the maximum some people are prepared to pay, and they'd rather have lower passenger numbers but with each individual paying more money.

It's not about providing a public service (which is absurd, given the subsidies involved).

It could be worse; Thirsk to Whitby (£24.10 CDR) costs more than York to Whitby (£14.00 CDR) and Northallerton to Whitby is even costlier (£26.20). There is no bus from Thirsk or Northallerton, so they can price it as high as they want and unsuspecting people who don't have a car will pay it. But from York, if it was any higher than £14, everyone would get the faster, more frequent, direct Coastliner bus.

For sensible fares, see most PTE areas, and also most lines in Devon & Cornwall.
 

Starmill

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Most fares in Scotland are pretty good value, including almost all of the Central Belt and things like Glasgow to Fort William for just £29 return. I have always thought that Stranraer needs some of the major anomalies reducing if it is to gain passengers. The cheapest return from Paisley St James to Stranraer is £37.70. But from Glasgow Central is £21.10! Cathcart to Stranraer is £45.
 

sheff1

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Don't forget that a local resident can get a Highland Railcard at only £9 a year. This gives a 50% reduction on adult fares and a flat £2 return for children.
 

paddy1

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I guess with the Whitby fare to and from York being cheaper than fares from Thirsk and Northallerton, even though you would have to pass through both places to get to Whitby from York and v.v., that the stopping and starting short would apply and save you a considerable amount of money in the process.

Having said that, the average person isn't going to know or be aware of all these numerous fare anomalies that result in the unaware paying more for less.
 
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yorkie

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I guess with the Whitby fare to and from York being cheaper that the fares from Thirsk and Northallerton, even though you would have to pass through both places to get to Whitby from York and v.v., that the stopping and starting short would apply and save you a considerable amount of money in the process.
Absolutely, yes.
Having said that, the average person isn't going to know or be aware of all these numerous fare anomalies that result in the unaware paying more for less and so end up paying far more than what they need to.
That's right. I know many members of this forum save 3 or 4 figure sums on rail travel each year by knowing when it's cheaper to start/finish short, and/or use a combination of fares.

Sites like trainsplit.com mean that people don't have to spend any extra time on research, or have any prior knowledge, to benefit from many savings. For example, from Northallerton to Whitby the site will only charge people £17.96, a considerable saving compared to the £26.20 fare charged by the rail industry, although not quite as cheap as the £14 fare from York (to be fair, trainsplit is probably never going to be able to offer fares that involve starting/finishing short as it's too problematical)
 

neilmc

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Absolutely, yes.

That's right. I know many members of this forum save 3 or 4 figure sums on rail travel each year by knowing when it's cheaper to start/finish short, and/or use a combination of fares.

Sites like trainsplit.com mean that people don't have to spend any extra time on research, or have any prior knowledge, to benefit from many savings. For example, from Northallerton to Whitby the site will only charge people £17.96, a considerable saving compared to the £26.20 fare charged by the rail industry, although not quite as cheap as the £14 fare from York (to be fair, trainsplit is probably never going to be able to offer fares that involve starting/finishing short as it's too problematical)

So if you turn up at Thirsk or Northallerton station and ask for a York-Whitby CDR will they sell you one with no hassle?
 

Baxenden Bank

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So if you turn up at Thirsk or Northallerton station and ask for a York-Whitby CDR will they sell you one with no hassle?

They ought to!

They are obliged to do so under the rules.

Whether they actually do, we need a local to tell us.

If time is available (only a few minutes ahead on some sites) one can always buy online and collect (if those stations have a TVM).

If too many people start doing so, and the TOC has a problem, they 'simply' need to adjust the fares. Make the York fare an advance for example? Reduce the higher intermediate fares. :) Ban starting short. :shock:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Earlier this year I was on holiday up near Helmsdale in the far North East of Scotland. I considered using the train for a couple of relatively local days out but couldn't believe how high the fares were for relatively short journeys on the Far North Line.

Despite its slow and long journey time of nearly 4 hours from Inverness to Thurso I still think that £26.50 for a Day Return for the whole distance even to Wick is good value considering the distance involved. I could not therefore believe that from where we were staying in Helmsdale at least three quarters of the distance up the line and only just over an hour to Thurso the fare was only £4 less than from Inverness at £21.50!
It was no better going south with a relatively local, short journey for that line of only 50 minutes to Lairg being £20.50 return! Don't they want people to make local intermediate journeys on that line? I can't imagine the locals ever using the train and it's certainly not very attractive for tourism at those prices. The lady who owned our holiday cottage said that she has occasionally used the train to go to Inverness, she doesn't know of anyone locally who uses it for shorter journeys because of the high fares.

I remember a similar situation a few years ago when staying at Barrhill in the South West of Scotland and the fare for the local jourrney of approx 30 minutes into Stranraer was around £15 return which totally discouraged the locals from using the train for shopping trips. Why do they charge such high local fares on these lines which are struggling to survive?

On the West Highland Line, you can often get advances for £5 from one end to the other which, given how few trains you have a choice of anyway, does not really restrict your journey options. Yet they are not available to all intermediate stations, so you would end up having to buy another, non-advance ticket at rather greater cost. Not sure if the same applies to Far North lines.
 
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Kite159

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They ought to!

They are obliged to do so under the rules.

Whether they actually do, we need a local to tell us.

If time is available (only a few minutes ahead on some sites) one can always buy online and collect (if those stations have a TVM).

If too many people start doing so, and the TOC has a problem, they 'simply' need to adjust the fares. Make the York fare an advance for example? Reduce the higher intermediate fares. :) Ban starting short. :shock:

If anything the restriction code will be changed to prohibit break of journey apart from when changing trains. As Yorkie mentioned make it any higher and you are pushing passengers from York towards the bus.

---------

As for the Far North Line, I bet most of the regular users will hold the Highlands railcard giving them discounts
 

najaB

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Don't forget that a local resident can get a Highland Railcard at only £9 a year. This gives a 50% reduction on adult fares and a flat £2 return for children.
Which largely explains the high fares - the residents pay reasonable fares, and visitors get fleeced. :)
 

47271

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It is annoying how those routes sting the casual tourist traveller. I very rarely use the Kyle line but a few years ago - and in the days of First - we were on holiday on Skye and, on a day when the weather turned bad, we opted for the train ride into Inverness.

It cost well over £60 for the two of us, made all the worse by someone in front of me in the queue buying a Club 55 or whatever it was in those days return to Edinburgh for less than I paid for one return to Inverness.

When we got on the train - inevitably a two coach 158 - one carriage was fully reserved for a coach party and we ended up nearly having to stand. We got sorted out in the end but it was a lot of money for what should have been a scenic treat but started as really quite a poor experience.
 

mikeg

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I live near Thirsk and have never had problems buying the york to Whitby ticket at the ticket office there, neither did my friend's party have any problems when doing the same from Northallerton. Have to say Thirsk station is good for accurate and impartial retailing, Northallerton less so.
 

Goatboy

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Interesting thread, I encountered the same thing - on a recent trip up to the Far North I decided to get a train from Golspie to one of the more isolated inland stations, about 20 miles further up.

I was shocked to pay almost 30 quid for the two of us!
 
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me123

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With the FNL, the frequency is so low and the communities so small that even if you were to reduce fares, you'd be unlikely to induce much demand. Car ownership is pretty essential up there, so people will choose to drive in the vast majority of cases unless there was to be a significant improvement in frequency (which ain't going to happen). So there's, sadly, no incentive for Scotrail to reduce the fares.
 

Goatboy

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Still, not as bad as Keynsham to Bath Spa - 7 minutes and £4.30!
 

pennine

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I live near Thirsk and have never had problems buying the york to Whitby ticket at the ticket office there, neither did my friend's party have any problems when doing the same from Northallerton. Have to say Thirsk station is good for accurate and impartial retailing, Northallerton less so.

I was impressed at Redcar Central when a gentleman asked for a return to Thirsk (for the races), the clerk informed him that the ticket will say, York, as it will be cheaper for him.
 

father_jack

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I was impressed at Redcar Central when a gentleman asked for a return to Thirsk (for the races), the clerk informed him that the ticket will say, York, as it will be cheaper for him.

Does the clerk hand back of his wages every week ? Easy way to get a clause 9..........
 

les.

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I reckon the most expensive fare is Barton-Upon-Humber to Hull. £47.00 for a day return and that is just a bus over the Humber Bridge, you don't even get on a train!
 

yorkie

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I reckon the most expensive fare is Barton-Upon-Humber to Hull. £47.00 for a day return and that is just a bus over the Humber Bridge, you don't even get on a train!
That fare is valid and intended for use via Doncaster & York. It is bonkers though.
 

les.

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That fare is valid and intended for use via Doncaster & York. It is bonkers though.

It can be used via that route but it does show a bus from Barton to Hull on more TOC's booking sites.

Why on earth it's that price I've no idea.
 

miami84

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I've just come back from doing the Far North and Kyle lines. I paid £6.60 return (with railcard) on the Inverness to Wick which I thought was tremendous value. Is there a better "pence per mile" in the UK than that? The Kyle line was very similar and the Inverness to Edinburgh was just over £7.00 single.
 

185143

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I've just come back from doing the Far North and Kyle lines. I paid £6.60 return (with railcard) on the Inverness to Wick which I thought was tremendous value. Is there a better "pence per mile" in the UK than that? The Kyle line was very similar and the Inverness to Edinburgh was just over £7.00 single.
Yes, there is. I did Edinburgh-Thurso for 65p (with railcard) earlier this year!
 

ashworth

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I've just come back from doing the Far North and Kyle lines. I paid £6.60 return (with railcard) on the Inverness to Wick which I thought was tremendous value. Is there a better "pence per mile" in the UK than that? The Kyle line was very similar and the Inverness to Edinburgh was just over £7.00 single.

End to end journeys covering the whole line are very reasonably priced on the Far North Line but it's short journeys between local intermediate stations which are highly priced. Try doing a local journey from somewhere like Golspie to Tain and it's £20.50 return.
 

les.

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End to end journeys covering the whole line are very reasonably priced on the Far North Line but it's short journeys between local intermediate stations which are highly priced. Try doing a local journey from somewhere like Golspie to Tain and it's £20.50 return.

It's strange that a ticket to a station 2 stops BEFORE the end of the line on the Inverness-Kyle line is twice the price of going to the end of the line!
 
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