Broad Gauge

Does anyone know if there is any group out there wishing to re-create a Brunel broad-gauge line? I imagine (easy to imagine!) the formation of a derelict line could be utilised, and a single line of some length – say a couple of miles - laid down to 7’-0”. I have seen the little bit of Broad Gauge at Didcot, and ridden in the bench-seat wagon behind a broad gauge steam engine, but the trip is very short. If there were to be a line of some length, then the replica engine could really ‘run’, and we would really lose our hats!

And then there could be some experimenting with modern rolling stock running on a seven-foot road, maybe a re-configured DMU say. And then maybe some further experiments with wide-bodied vehicles in a big loading gauge – use the wide road for all it’s worth, as it were. We couldn’t replicate the bridge rail of course, so it would have to be ordinary f.b. rail, with short sleepers under each rail and long steel ties between. So my line is a single track on a double track formation. With a run-round loop at the far end, and a decent depot at the business end of the line, say a car shed with maintenance road, a visitor centre – all that – I suspect it would be of huge interest to some people.
13/11/2016

There was a short demonstration track at the NRM a few years ago, but was lifted.

The topic of whether broad gauge would improve modern trains was discussed on here a couple of months back, but it was difficult to think of any benefits. A re-created historic line would be interesting though.

Doesn't the GWS site at Didcot have a length?

neilb62 said:

Doesn't the GWS site at Didcot have a length?

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Yes, as stated in the original post. The poster was considering a longer line.

Interesting idea and it would have that "Unique Selling Point" that is so important to attract the non enthusiast (Huge) market. Given that there are quite a few short heritage lines might it be worth one of them "Re-gauging" as a method of generating that extra interest - ideally one of the ex GWR branches?

I remember discussing this idea with a friend and us thinking that the section of the West Somerset from Bishops Lydeard to Norton Fitzwarren could be a good section to do it on.
Now this is only fantasy so before any WSR volunteers spit their tea at the screen and start furiously tapping away a reply to that idiot from Devon, this is what we IMAGINED :

A mixed gauge line starting from either the station or perhaps just on the Taunton side of the station at Bishops Lydeard running to the new station at Norton Fitzwarren on what was originally a broad gauge route, the site at Norton Fitzwarren is all new anyway and so it isn't going to matter too much what's built there and it would be a unique selling point of an already excellent line.
It would be about three miles long and because that section of the line isn't particularly well used apart from at galas it wouldn't get in the way of current WSR services.
It's a pleasant but not particularly scenic part of the line.
It could almost be run as an entirely separate endeavour earning the railway a healthy piece of extra income from fares/filming etc.

Fantasy over, lowering head below parapet now.

I suppose if we are in "Imagining Mode" we could also have an "Atmospheric Railway" section but with a modern plastic sealing system rather than the rat feeding leather seal that Brunel had to use !

Flying Phil said:

I suppose if we are in "Imagining Mode" we could also have an "Atmospheric Railway" section but with a modern plastic sealing system rather than the rat feeding leather seal that Brunel had to use !

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I think that it's a case of "chose to use" rather than "had to use"!

Here's what Wiki says:

Problems with the slot closure

"During the winter of 1847–1848 the leather flap valve that sealed the traction pipe slot began to give trouble. During the cold days of winter the leather froze hard in frost after saturation in rain. This resulted in its failing to seat properly after the passage of a train, allowing air into the pipe and reducing the effectiveness of pumping. In the following spring and summer there was hot and dry weather and the leather valve dried out, with pretty much the same outcome. Brunel had the leather treated with whale oil in an attempt to maintain flexibility. There was said to be a chemical reaction between the tannin in the leather and iron oxide on the pipe. There were also difficulties with the leather cup seal on the pistons.

Commentators observe that the South Devon system omitted the iron weather flap that was used on the Dalkey line to cover the flap valve. On that line iron plates were turned away immediately ahead of the piston bracket. It is not recorded why this was omitted in South Devon, but at speed that arrangement must have involved considerable mechanical force, and generated environmental noise.

In May and June even more serious trouble was experienced when sections of the flap tore away from its fixing, and sections had to be quickly replaced. Samuda had a contract with the company to maintain the system, and he advised installation of a weather cover, but this was not adopted. This would not have rectified the immediate problem, and complete replacement of the leather flap was required; this was estimated to cost £32,000—a very large sum of money then—and Samuda declined to act."

However, you're right about being able to learn from the past and correct the faults that happened then.

(Back in full "Imagining Mode!")

Thanks Ebbw and Wiki
- The trouble with "Imagining Mode" of course is that you...... sometimes begin to think - Actually that is a really "Good Idea" and then...... if some other agree.....it begins to move to reality.

Flying Phil said:

Thanks Ebbw and Wiki
- The trouble with "Imagining Mode" of course is that you...... sometimes begin to think - Actually that is a really "Good Idea" and then...... if some other agree.....it begins to move to reality.

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Yes, I see what you mean.

I'd say, though, that the best place for this would be at Didcot, as long as the existing line could be extended - although I don't know whether this is a possibility.

Yes Didcot would be the best place as the whole Broad Gauge/Atmospheric railway is Brunel/GWR, but the length would need to be at least a mile to really show it off and I doubt whether Didcot could attain that length?? Bristol Harbour railway might be another possibility and it also has the SS Great Britain close by.

But it's so much better to get on a train for a proper journey than to trundle up a siding and back...
When you see what has been done in the way of reconstruction over the years by the Ffestiniog, the Bluebell and now the GWSR, I don't see why the broad gauge line shouldn't be a goer.

I would think the West Somerset idea is the best, as has been said there is little existing infrastructure to complicate things, and to start off it would only need a run-round loop at each end and a shed, so about 6 sets of points. There is also the cost of a loco and some rolling stock too, of course, but in the preservation world it seems that almost nothing is impossible.

The points will be expensive, but mixed gauge single track between the stations "only" needs longer sleepers and a third rail!

I would guess that getting enough volunteers might be the biggest problem, as the big centres of population are a fair distance away. Having said that, the Ffestiniog is much more remote, and they had to find a new route around the lake.
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L&Y Robert said:

And then there could be some experimenting with modern rolling stock running on a seven-foot road, maybe a re-configured DMU say. And then maybe some further experiments with wide-bodied vehicles in a big loading gauge

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When you think of the vehicle acceptance hurdles to be jumped (and how basic the first rolling stock was) I imagine it might be easier to build brand-new wagons. After all, it will only be for a relatively short ride, so 4-wheel coal trucks with benches in would be both appropriate and adequate. Continuous brakes would be fitted, of course, and I suppose you would have to screw the benches down quite well...

Many years ago I remember reading of a proposal to relay the Cholsey and Wallingford as a preserved broad gauge line. I can't remember any more details though, or even if it was a serious proposal.

Does anyone know Brunel's reason for adding a quarter of an inch to the gauge?
A gauge of seven feet and one quarter inch seems incredibly odd. Even in metric it's 2140mm, which isn't any sort of sensible measurement.

EM2 said:

Does anyone know Brunel's reason for adding a quarter of an inch to the gauge?
A gauge of seven feet and one quarter inch seems incredibly odd. Even in metric it's 2140mm, which isn't any sort of sensible measurement.

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If the trains and rails are built to the same guage, the system could seize up, I guess it was easier at the time to alter the rails rather than already built stock, to give a a bit of give.
Confirmation on Wikipedia.
The gauge initially proposed by Brunel was 7' 0" (2,134 mm) exactly but this was soon increased by ¼" (6 mm) to accommodate clearance problems identified during early testing.

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