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Are paper timetable booklets pointless these days?

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This thread ( http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138467 ) got me thinking - is there really any place, in the 21st century, for printing up loads of paper timetable booklets that almost no body will ever look at?

Are we not just offering a crutch to those unable to join the modern world? It isnt 1879 anymore. We have the ability to carry every timetable in the entire world on a small device in our pockets. Why bother with the paper? Or are they a useful tool when things go wrong or technology breaks down?

Personally I see no need for them and would stop printing them tomorrow. They are, to my mind, a complete waste of money. I can get all of the information via my phone or computer in less time than it takes to open the timetable booklet.

What are your views?

An interesting line of thought and some interesting views in response. It's a little unfortunate that you're so pejorative in describing those who may not be so tech-savvy/keen as yourself however. These are people who still count in the millions in this country.


P.S. I'm not offended. Never been a believer in taking offence at things that aren't anything to do with oneself - even if that is out of step with the apparent national mood :)
 
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LAX54

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The cost of many things is going that way:

  • If I fly I print the ticket at home.
  • If I want hard copy receipts from an increasing number of things bought in a shop I print them at home.
  • If I buy a ticket for a gig or theater I often print the ticket at home
  • If I buy a coach ticket I print it at home
  • If i want all the terms and conditions and the actual insurance certificate for my house I print it at home.

It is the way of the world.

Which is a good way of all those Companies moving the cost of paper / printing carts etc away from them, and onto the buyer ! Plus I kinow quite a few who have a mobile phone, and its just that a mobile phone ! many people do not want a gadget that does almost anythng EXCEPT make decent calls !
 
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AlterEgo

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Which is a good way of all those Companies moving the cost of paper / printing carts etc away from them, and onto the buyer ! Plus I kinow quite a few who have a mobile phone, and its just that a mobile phone ! many people do not want a gadget that does almost anythng EXCEPT make decent calls !

Well if you don't want to embrace new (well not even that new!) technology, then expect to be left behind.
 

Llanigraham

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Well if you don't want to embrace new (well not even that new!) technology, then expect to be left behind.

Perhaps some parts of the country don't have and are unlikely ever to have adequate facilities to use your new technology! <D
 

Techniquest

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I still like the paper timetables myself, although I also use RTT or NRE if I don't have the paper timetable.

I have the Hereford to London GWR timetable in digital form on my phone, but by cripes it's far more annoying to read than the paper version. However, it was still useful the other day, as I wanted to quickly look up a possible move for 19th December before I headed into work.

Then there was the Anglia regional services timetable I was using some weeks back. It was so much easier to plan moves with it than rely on RTT. Especially as I had severe mobile data issues one evening in Norwich, if I had not had the timetable booklet on me it would have proved much harder to plan my journeys. Same for leaping around the place on 90s, when mobile data was very hit and miss. Quite, it also came in handy for creating observation files for the 'Trains you've seen working' thread too!

My point is that I like both digital and paper timetables, and would hate to see the end of paper timetables!
 

EAD

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One thing I would throw into the ring is the format of timetables in the UK. We have essentially shifted from full detail paper timetables to smaller route/station based paper copies and online/app services.

Nothing wrong with that, but we have lost the detail a proper full timetable can give you. Other neighbouring countries have gone nearly fully online (very successfully in many cases), but you can still get a nice PDF version of the proper full timetable e.g. if in Austria this shows route number (Kursbuchstrecke), all trains and their details exactly as in the old paper full route timetable - have a look at http://www.oebb.at/de/strecken-fahrplaninfos/fahrplanbilder

I think that is the one thing we are missing in the same manner: instead we have made things "simpler" which means reducing this information. Not a problem for the average user, but useful to have and I think it is a shame we don't offer it. They also manage it (mainly thanks to the power of regional travel authorities) across operators in many other countries.
 

GodAtum

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Dont forget stations with no signal. I sometimes have a pdf copy on the phone or printed out.
 
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This thread ( http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138467 ) got me thinking - is there really any place, in the 21st century, for printing up loads of paper timetable booklets that almost no body will ever look at?

Are we not just offering a crutch to those unable to join the modern world? It isnt 1879 anymore. We have the ability to carry every timetable in the entire world on a small device in our pockets. Why bother with the paper? Or are they a useful tool when things go wrong or technology breaks down?

Personally I see no need for them and would stop printing them tomorrow. They are, to my mind, a complete waste of money. I can get all of the information via my phone or computer in less time than it takes to open the timetable booklet.

What are your views?

Not really, although I can use the latest gadgets etc I still like the paper timetable, one reason is working out split ticketing for the same train etc
 

newbie babs

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I like timetables its rather like maps, to be able to read both is an art these days.

Timetables can be read at all times if you have one, your phone can loose its signal or its battery can be dead so I think there is a use for timetables.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Case in point where paper timetables are useful... I need to get from central London to Barnehurst at a particular time this evening. It's possible that the best train might be one from Cannon Street, Charing Cross or Victoria. I just tried the nationalrail.co.uk online journey planner, and it was a complete pain - as far as I could tell you had to check each possible London terminus separately. On the other hand, it was trivially easy with SouthEastern's paper booklets - which lists all the Barnehurst via Bexleyheath trains in one place.

And that's even before you factor in that the journey planner gives no clue what to do if my chosen train is late or cancelled, whereas the paper one (combined with a knowledge of the local geography, so I can imagine the possible other options) is much more helpful for that.
 
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Deerfold

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Fair enough. But would most people need the full book rather than one leaflet on a regular basis?

The Calder Valley single timetable has been replaced by Northern timetables from next week.

Leeds - Manchester (via Halifax)
Leeds - Blackpool
Leeds - Huddersfield/Hebden Bridge via Halifax and Leeds - Manchester (via Brighouse)
Burnley - Manchester.

If you travel from Halifax in both directions you'll need the top 3 of those to see all the trains. There's assorted other stations that will now need 3 leaflets to see where you can go directly.
 

urbophile

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When I was a kid, I plundered loads of pocket timetables from Scarborough station's information office (they were quite happy for me to take a few of each, as long as I didn't clear the lot out). As it was in the BR days, there was quite a wide variety.

I then set up an "information office" in my bedroom and encouraged relatives to come and enquire about journeys.

Not only was this fun, it also helped me learn quite a lot - about local geography, timetabling, organisation, etc.

Somehow I just don't see timetables on a phone offering the same scope, but staring at a phone does seem to be the primary leisure activity these days.
A friend of mine, years ago when stations had their individual phone enquiry lines, had a phone number one digit different from Liverpool Lime Street. He bought a paper timetable and became quite adept in answering people's queries.
 

BuhSnarf

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Ah, I see. It's not about paper timetables being obsolete - its about pushing the cost of producing them on to the customer.

At least we're clear about that then.
If you put the cost to the customer they are only likely to use it if they need it. If you provide it for free they'll take a loaf even if they don't.

Thousands of little paper booklets that get thrown away every x months is probably not good for the environment. I agree, if people want to print them, let them.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 

yorksrob

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If you put the cost to the customer they are only likely to use it if they need it. If you provide it for free they'll take a loaf even if they don't.

Thousands of little paper booklets that get thrown away every x months is probably not good for the environment. I agree, if people want to print them, let them.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

Probably all the more reason to combine them into one handy booklet, like the WY timetable which people can keep hold of then.
 

takno

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Case in point where paper timetables are useful... I need to get from central London to Barnehurst at a particular time this evening. It's possible that the best train might be one from Cannon Street, Charing Cross or Victoria. I just tried the nationalrail.co.uk online journey planner, and it was a complete pain - as far as I could tell you had to check each possible London terminus separately. On the other hand, it was trivially easy with SouthEastern's paper booklets - which lists all the Barnehurst via Bexleyheath trains in one place.

This is the site I'm working on right now, with details of all trains from London to Barnehurst at 10am tomorrow (just as an example). It's not quite a paper timetable since you still need a computer or phone, but it does have all departure stations, and a list of calling stations, plus it has live updates.
https://traksy.uk/live/L+999+@10:00+departures+BNH
I'm interested to know if you find it more useful than the National Rail approach
 

DynamicSpirit

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This is the site I'm working on right now, with details of all trains from London to Barnehurst at 10am tomorrow (just as an example). It's not quite a paper timetable since you still need a computer or phone, but it does have all departure stations, and a list of calling stations, plus it has live updates.
https://traksy.uk/live/L+999+@10:00+departures+BNH
I'm interested to know if you find it more useful than the National Rail approach

That's very nice! A definite improvement on the National Rail site in layout and ease of getting information. I like the fact that the calling points are clearly displayed. I'll definitely keep an eye on your site! (Minor issue; Doesn't work in IE but I'm guessing that's related to the fact that it's still only a beta).
 

takno

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That's very nice! A definite improvement on the National Rail site in layout and ease of getting information. I like the fact that the calling points are clearly displayed. I'll definitely keep an eye on your site! (Minor issue; Doesn't work in IE but I'm guessing that's related to the fact that it's still only a beta).

Thanks! IE and iPhone 4s are the main things I know that don't work right now. Edge is fine. I can support later versions of IE but it needs some configuration work and makes releases slower, so it's a little way down the priority list. Properly handling splitting and joining trains come a lot higher.
 

duffield

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Case in point where paper timetables are useful... I need to get from central London to Barnehurst at a particular time this evening. It's possible that the best train might be one from Cannon Street, Charing Cross or Victoria. I just tried the nationalrail.co.uk online journey planner, and it was a complete pain - as far as I could tell you had to check each possible London terminus separately.

You start typing 'london' for the 'from' station and the first pop-up option is it gives you is 'london - all stations'. This worked fine, giving me trains from all the three stations you listed.
 

GodAtum

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This is the site I'm working on right now, with details of all trains from London to Barnehurst at 10am tomorrow (just as an example). It's not quite a paper timetable since you still need a computer or phone, but it does have all departure stations, and a list of calling stations, plus it has live updates.
https://traksy.uk/live/L+999+@10:00+departures+BNH
I'm interested to know if you find it more useful than the National Rail approach

Nice site. But cancelled trains are still shown as running on the overview page. I have to click each train to see if it is actually cancelled.
 

takno

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Nice site. But cancelled trains are still shown as running on the overview page. I have to click each train to see if it is actually cancelled.

Thanks for the feedback. I've now fixed this.
 

DynamicSpirit

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You start typing 'london' for the 'from' station and the first pop-up option is it gives you is 'london - all stations'. This worked fine, giving me trains from all the three stations you listed.

Thanks! I just tried that, and you're right that works. That is useful - and does make the national rail site better than I thought for those kinds of journeys.
 

underbank

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miami

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And how useful was a printed timetable wenthw stations were closed?

How useful was it for the next week when there was an emergency timetable running?
 

yorksrob

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And how useful was a printed timetable wenthw stations were closed?

How useful was it for the next week when there was an emergency timetable running?

Very useful, because one can make a note of any planned changes in the margin or at the bottom of the table.
 

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There used to be a book that you could buy from WH Smiths back in the day with every timetable listed in detail, not sure if it is still published or not
 

Mugby

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I picked up some of the new ones last Saturday, I notice that XC have reduced their booklets from four to two:

Scotland and The North East to The South West now includes Manchester to The South Coast.

Stanstead, Cambridge, Leicester, Birmingham now includes Nottingham, Derby, Cardiff.
 
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