Class 185 refurbishment for TPE.

gimmea50anyday · 28 Jan 2017

Townsend Hook said:
Is there any word on the Pretendolino coming north to cover the gap in the roster?

Might not now be happening. Construction of the mk5"s is apparently ahead of schedule meaning work on the DFO's may be earlier than originally expected. This would itself lead to no t+t requirement. The mk3 stock may instead stay with GW allowing 4 150s to transfer to Northern thereby freeing up hired 185s back to TPE.

However driver and traincrew training does need to start soon so something needs to be in the pipeline.

I must add this is mere speculation and the situation is very fluid at the moment. Electrification is late as is the attached rolling stock cascade.

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gimmea50anyday · 28 Jan 2017

Of course freeing up units for traffic is one thing but then taking them out for works means no gain in capacity so the mk3 may make an appearance yet. Think Tim Brawn may be eyeing up its use for future TPE/BLS railway children charters.

Given the state of the fleet 109 is currently a christmas tree as many bits of it are ending up in other examples of the fleet. Could be out for a while yet although internal rumours suggest TPE have ordered Siemens to put it back together pronto due to fleet shortages!

pemma · 28 Jan 2017

gimmea50anyday said:
Might not now be happening. Construction of the mk5"s is apparently ahead of schedule meaning work on the DFO's may be earlier than originally expected. This would itself lead to no t+t requirement. The mk3 stock may instead stay with GW allowing 4 150s to transfer to Northern thereby freeing up hired 185s back to TPE.

However driver and traincrew training does need to start soon so something needs to be in the pipeline.

I must add this is mere speculation and the situation is very fluid at the moment. Electrification is late as is the attached rolling stock cascade.

The North TPE and Northern changes need to commence at the same date. Northern can't withdraw the Huddersfield stoppers and start running the Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warrington services before the North TPE recast. Neither can they start running Manchester Airport to Cumbria via Wigan services if TPE are still using the paths via Wigan for Scottish services.

A local paper quoted someone from TPE as saying the North TPE enhancements will commence in May 2018 so it sounds like they have no interim measure for extra stock until the loco-hauled sets are in service, when the franchise spec mentions 2 x mk3 hauled sets as an interim measure.

Aren't Northern loaning more than 2 x 185s currently? If so 4 x 150s replacing their 185s would create (further) capacity problems for Northern.

yorksrob · 28 Jan 2017

What is it with leather seats. Why it seems to be assumed that everyone who pays for first class wants to slide around like a boy racer in his sports car, I don't know.

WatcherZero · 28 Jan 2017

jcollins said:
The North TPE and Northern changes need to commence at the same date. Northern can't withdraw the Huddersfield stoppers and start running the Liverpool to Manchester Airport via Warrington services before the North TPE recast. Neither can they start running Manchester Airport to Cumbria via Wigan services if TPE are still using the paths via Wigan for Scottish services.

A local paper quoted someone from TPE as saying the North TPE enhancements will commence in May 2018 so it sounds like they have no interim measure for extra stock until the loco-hauled sets are in service, when the franchise spec mentions 2 x mk3 hauled sets as an interim measure.

Aren't Northern loaning more than 2 x 185s currently? If so 4 x 150s replacing their 185s would create (further) capacity problems for Northern.

As I understand it currently the service changes that will now take place at the end of the year are one TPE Airport-York service rerouted via Ordsall and Victoria and TPE Scotland services offpeak will go via Bolton while Peak remain via Wigan until Northern introduces the Chat Moss Wigan services.

Aldaniti · 28 Jan 2017

yorksrob said:
What is it with leather seats. Why it seems to be assumed that everyone who pays for first class wants to slide around like a boy racer in his sports car, I don't know.

I don't understand the attraction either, can't stand the things. Possibly easier and cheaper to keep clean for the TOC's I suppose. Years ago, those wealthy enough to have a chauffeur-driven car would sit on velour seats in the rear, whilst the poor chauffeur would have to sit on leather.

Not much different to Old English Vinyl in my book....

J-2739 · 28 Jan 2017

Oi! So much hate for the leather! They may not feel good but boy, they do smell like something! If the word splendid was a scent, then it'd definitely resemble that!

I mean, who needs crack when you've got the nice aroma of a leather seat?! :lol:

61653 HTAFC · 28 Jan 2017

J-2739 said:
Oi! So much hate for the leather! They may not feel good but boy, they do smell like something! If the word splendid was a scent, then it'd definitely resemble that!

I mean, who needs crack when you've got the nice aroma of a leather seat?!

Ha! A contender for post of the week here!

If you don't like leather seats, it won't be an issue on 185s as chances are you'll be standing in a vestibule anyway!

Aldaniti · 28 Jan 2017

61653 HTAFC said:
If you don't like leather seats, it won't be an issue on 185s as chances are you'll be standing in a vestibule anyway!

Good one, wish I'd thought of that. :lol:

61653 HTAFC · 28 Jan 2017

Aldaniti said:
Good one, wish I'd thought of that.

Thanks. I'm here all week!

JaJaWa · 29 Jan 2017

superalbs said:
Found it!

It looks pretty much identical to the render from a few posts ago, for the new stock. :P

Here's a clearer look at those.

Note: these are from before First was awarded the new franchise so there aren't any logos and the colour scheme could have changed.

ainsworth74 · 29 Jan 2017

Do we know if this is going to include wi-fi and the wider provision of sockets?

Mordac · 29 Jan 2017

ainsworth74 said:
Do we know if this is going to include wi-fi and the wider provision of sockets?

Will definitely include wi-fi, but dunno about the sockets.

Blindtraveler · 29 Jan 2017

Give me sockets over Wifi any day as to be honest if you have a decent data bundle your often better using it.

ainsworth74 · 29 Jan 2017

Blindtraveler said:
Give me sockets over Wifi any day as to be honest if you have a decent data bundle your often better using it.

Indeed but I'm thinking of my fellow travellers who might not be so blessed!

Bletchleyite · 29 Jan 2017

JaJaWa said:
Here's a clearer look at those.

Note: these are from before First was awarded the new franchise so there aren't any logos and the colour scheme could have changed.

Ah, yes, that was more what I was expecting - existing seats, new-shaped cushions.

That's fair enough, as there's nothing much wrong with the existing seat frames.

Mordac · 29 Jan 2017

Blindtraveler said:
Give me sockets over Wifi any day as to be honest if you have a decent data bundle your often better using it.

Good luck getting any signal on most of the WCML between Preston and Motherwell.

Nym · 29 Jan 2017

Mordac said:
Good luck getting any signal on most of the WCML between Preston and Motherwell.

And pray tell, where will the WiFi get it's signal from?

cjmillsnun · 29 Jan 2017

47802 said:
Really I'm my eyes they are certainly not inferior to a Northern 158 by a big margin, as for Leather just as well I carn't afford to travel 1st as I hate Leather and never understand the appeal.

I hate car with Leather interiors and as well as not liking the actual feel of leather it seems to frequently crack and split in cars at least.

It only cracks and splits because people do not take care of it. Just like our skin, leather needs to be kept in good order.

Bletchleyite · 29 Jan 2017

Mordac said:
Good luck getting any signal on most of the WCML between Preston and Motherwell.

I worked on my laptop connected to EE via my iPad near enough all the way from MK to Edinburgh a few times. It is only EE that has that level of coverage, though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Clansman · 29 Jan 2017

Doubt there will be plug sockets. All plug sockets on Desiros seem to be built into the tables. Maybe the body of the train isn't suitable for them, I've no idea. They could probably incorporate it into the seats in a similar way to the ironing boards.

Nym · 29 Jan 2017

Clansman said:
Doubt there will be plug sockets. All plug sockets on Desiros seem to be built into the tables. Maybe the body of the train isn't suitable for them, I've no idea. They could probably incorporate it into the seats in a similar way to the ironing boards.

The sockets are in the bodyside of quite a few stocks, and there's nothing to stop them being placed above table height a'la 1st class on a few stocks, or in the base of the seat backs as is done on Hitachi stock.

Bold notes a bugbear that one would call attention to BS1363-2:2016 "13 A plugs, socket-outlets, adaptors and connection units. Specification for 13 A switched and unswitched socket-outlets" for the correct definition.

Mordac · 29 Jan 2017

Nym said:
And pray tell, where will the WiFi get it's signal from?

It's probably easier if the WiFi can tap into all of the four networks, whereas passengers' phones will be limited to one of them. Of course, there will still be some places which are blackspots for all networks, but less than for any individual one.

Neil Williams said:
I worked on my laptop connected to EE via my iPad near enough all the way from MK to Edinburgh a few times. It is only EE that has that level of coverage, though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's quite impressive. Never can get anything on the Clyde Valley or the Lake District on GiffGaff (piggybacking on O2).

Nym · 29 Jan 2017

Mordac said:
It's probably easier if the WiFi can tap into all of the four networks, whereas passengers' phones will be limited to one of them. Of course, there will still be some places which are blackspots for all networks, but less than for any individual one.

The majority of on board WiFi or 3G/4G installations on rolling stock will primarily use one network, with fail-over redundancy to another.

Bletchleyite · 29 Jan 2017

Mordac said:
That's quite impressive. Never can get anything on the Clyde Valley or the Lake District on GiffGaff (piggybacking on O2).

I've stuck with O2 on my phone largely because they seem to be reasonably cheap and pleasant enough to deal with, but their coverage, particularly of 4G data, is atrocious compared with EE.

TC60054 · 29 Jan 2017

I believe the overall plan is plug sockets at every pair of seats.

gimmea50anyday · 29 Jan 2017

A recent survey by Icomera on behalf of Stagecoach and First revealed the top network was EE followed by 3. O2 actually performed quite poorly in comparison which annoyingly is TPEs staff mobile network. Often I choose to use my personal mobile because the network can be very patchy

Nym · 29 Jan 2017

TC60054 said:
I believe the overall plan is plug sockets at every pair of seats.

But how will you plug your load in if there's already a plug in the socket?

CC 72100 · 29 Jan 2017

gimmea50anyday said:
A recent survey by Icomera on behalf of Stagecoach and First revealed the top network was EE followed by 3. O2 actually performed quite poorly in comparison which annoyingly is TPEs staff mobile network. Often I choose to use my personal mobile because the network can be very patchy

I had very good 3 signal up the WCML the other week. And for all O2's faults, just remember, it's £1 lunch day tomorrow :lol:

DarloRich · 30 Jan 2017

D365 said:
About time they sort out the interiors, they're far inferior to the Class 158/170.

no, they aren't.

Neil Williams said:
I don't like leather seats, "e" or otherwise - they are sweaty and slippy. A good quality moquette in a rich, deep colour with subdued lighting and end panels is in my view the way to go. Ignoring any issues of comfort and window view, I *really* like the Pendolino interior decor, for example - and the same decor looked great in the Pretendolino Mk3s.

yorksrob said:
What is it with leather seats. Why it seems to be assumed that everyone who pays for first class wants to slide around like a boy racer in his sports car, I don't know.

Aldaniti said:
I don't understand the attraction either, can't stand the things. Possibly easier and cheaper to keep clean for the TOC's I suppose. Years ago, those wealthy enough to have a chauffeur-driven car would sit on velour seats in the rear, whilst the poor chauffeur would have to sit on leather.

Not much different to Old English Vinyl in my book....

it is cheap and easy to clean compared with fabric and looks expensive therefore suggesting quality.

And the pendo interior is dark and dingy, but will agree it worked on the Mkiii's

Class 185 refurbishment for TPE.

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