Any Permitted Route - London Overground?

Hi everyone - I've done my best to go through the routing instructions and I'm still stuck unfortunately. It's like an unsolvable-never-ending rubics cube lol

This is what I've been able to work out so far...

Origin: Gipsy Hill (GIP)
Destination: Richmond (RMD)

Work also has an office in: Clapham High St (CLP)

I'm contemplating getting an annual season ticket for the daily work commute that will allow me to travel between all 3 locations but my question is whether this is do-able with a point to point season ticket? rather than the zone 2-4 season ticket.

Using maps SC+WX for RP Streatham Group -> Richmond, I have traced a route that:

Starts at Gipsy Hill
Goes to Peckham Rye where
I catch overground through Clapham High St to Clapham Junction
From CLP to Richmond

Is this route valid?

I've been given the impression that my ticket does not allow travel on the underground so it begs the question... What is the Overground considered to be? This is how the relationship is described online:

"The network forms part of the National Rail network, but under the franchise control and branding of Transport for London (TfL). Operation has been franchised to Arriva Rail London since 13 November 2016."

What in the world does that mean? lol

Pete

You need to be able to trace the whole route on the maps. Peckham Rye is out on a limb on its own on map SC and you can't get to Clapham Junction (where you need to be to pick up map WX) from there. So that doesn't look valid unfortunately.

trainsinthesky said:

I've been given the impression that my ticket does not allow travel on the underground so it begs the question... What is the Overground considered to be? This is how the relationship is described online:

"The network forms part of the National Rail network, but under the franchise control and branding of Transport for London (TfL). Operation has been franchised to Arriva Rail London since 13 November 2016."

What in the world does that mean? lol

Click to expand...

London Overground remains part of the National Rail network, and thus is still part of the National Rail integrated ticketing system.

Any "Not Underground" ticket restrictions do not apply to London Overground - "Not Underground" means just that, i.e. the ticket is not valid for travel on the London Underground network.

Treat London Overground as if it were a normal TOC for ticketing purposes at least

Thanks for clarifying @Indigo2 @Joe Paxton... *sigh*

Change of topic if I may - Look how funny this is.. Denmark Hill to Richmond London.. It seems the only suggested map is LONDON except a condition of the season ticket is no London Terminals. How is that even possible?

The route would be via Clapham Junction.

LONDON isn't actually a map, it is an instruction to find routes from Denmark Hill to London and routes from London to Richmond.

trainsinthesky said:

Thanks for clarifying @Indigo2 @Joe Paxton... *sigh*

Change of topic if I may - Look how funny this is.. Denmark Hill to Richmond London.. It seems the only suggested map is LONDON except a condition of the season ticket is no London Terminals. How is that even possible?

Click to expand...

In addition to the mapped routes, the shortest route (plus routes no more than 3 miles longer) are also valid.

The shortest route does not go via London, and would be valid for changing at Clapham Junction. There is no need to consult the maps to determine this validity.

The map combination LONDON means, in this case:

• Denmark Hill to London Group on either map PK or map VL and
• London Group to Richmond on either map OV or TW

trainsinthesky said:

Thanks for clarifying @Indigo2 @Joe Paxton... *sigh*

Change of topic if I may - Look how funny this is.. Denmark Hill to Richmond London.. It seems the only suggested map is LONDON except a condition of the season ticket is no London Terminals. How is that even possible?

Click to expand...

Clive Feather vs ATOC clarified that LONDON and NOT LONDON are not mutually exclusive.

trainsinthesky said:

Thanks for clarifying @Indigo2 @Joe Paxton... *sigh*

Change of topic if I may - Look how funny this is.. Denmark Hill to Richmond London.. It seems the only suggested map is LONDON except a condition of the season ticket is no London Terminals. How is that even possible?

Click to expand...

There are two fares available for Denmark Hill to Richmond:

Not Via London - take the Overground to Clapham Junction and change for a train to Richmond

London Not Underground - You may travel via London but you can't use the Underground to travel between different London Terminals. So you could take a train from Denmark Hill to Victoria, change there for a train to Clapham Junction and change there for Richmond.

trainsinthesky said:

What is the Overground considered to be? This is how the relationship is described online:

"The network forms part of the National Rail network, but under the franchise control and branding of Transport for London (TfL). Operation has been franchised to Arriva Rail London since 13 November 2016."

What in the world does that mean? lol

Pete

Click to expand...

OK re-wording it into simple language:

• London Overground is a National Rail train operating company (TOC).
• London Overground is not to be confused with LU, however the concession is under the control of TfL

You could see it as a bit of a 'hybrid'; evidence of this can be seen in TfL signage, which refers to LO separately to the rest of National Rail, but don't let that confuse you: it most certainly is a part of National Rail!

yorkie said:

In addition to the mapped routes, the shortest route (plus routes no more than 3 miles longer) are also valid.

The shortest route does not go via London, and would be valid for changing at Clapham Junction. There is no need to consult the maps to determine this validity.

The map combination LONDON means, in this case:

• Denmark Hill to London Group on either map PK or map VL and
• London Group to Richmond on either map OV or TW

Click to expand...

Interesting..
@yorkie Where do I found map PK, VL

trainsinthesky said:

Interesting..
@yorkie Where do I found map PK, VL

Click to expand...

The maps are here: http://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps

But a word of caution: it's unwise to start using the maps when you've not read the rest of the Routeing Guide

trainsinthesky said:

I'm contemplating getting an annual season ticket for the daily work commute that will allow me to travel between all 3 locations but my question is whether this is do-able with a point to point season ticket? rather than the zone 2-4 season ticket.

Click to expand...

It may be doable, but there are a huge number of possible options to consider for something like this. Tickets in London are priced on a zonal basis, so that (say) a "not via London" season ticket between one pair of zone 3 stations costs much the same as another. The snag is that many station pairs don't have a "not via London" season ticket in the first place.