• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Train driver 'pulled from train and attacked'

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Merseysider

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
22 Jan 2014
Messages
5,400
Location
Birmingham
The assault happened on the night of 28/29 Jan. The content of the article:

Standard said:
A train driver was pulled from his train and attacked late last night at a London suburban station.

A man was arrested in the early hours of Sunday morning after the attack at Epsom rail station in Surrey.

Officers from two police forces – Surrey and British Transport Police – raced to the scene following reports which came in at around midnight.

A Surrey Police officer working in the Mole Valley said on Twitter a “drunk male” pulled a driver from a train and assaulted him.

Twitter said:
drunk male #epsom has pulled a driver from a train & assaulted him!! @BTP In attendance...someone wants 2 get home #custody it's warm there!
— S/Sgt Sam 6601 (@sc6601) January 29, 2017
Standard said:
Train passenger Sammie McGinlay was on a train passing through Epsom which was forced to stop because reports of a "fight".

She said on Twitter: “When your train can’t pull into Epsom because there’s a fight on the platform and they are waiting for the police. Fantastic.”

A spokesman from British Transport Police told the Standard one man had been arrested after the attack on a train driver at Epsom station at 12.05am.

The train driver suffered no serious injuries in the attack, police said.
 
Last edited:

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,697
Location
London
Hopefully the driver is doing ok. Hopefully the assailant will be charged by btp and the relevant toc takes action against the individual as well.

No driver, guard or platform staff should go to work wondering whether they're going to be assaulted on a friday, Saturday night or any other time.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,825
Location
Epsom
How would the assailant have accessed the cab?

If it was a terminating service, the driver has to change ends.


Since when has Epsom been in London?
I do hope that the driver is OK.

For the first part, we're just outside the Greater London boundary - but to all intents and purposes Epsom is just another suburb of London these days.

For the second point - so do I.
 
Last edited:

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611
If it was a terminating service, the driver has to change ends.




For the first part, we're just outside the Greater London boundary - but to all intents and purposes Epsom is just another suburb of London these days.

For the second point - so do I.

Nice part of the world (I lived there briefly). Considering how affluent it is, I can remember being surprised at how rough the town centre can be of an evening, particularly on a Friday/Saturday night.

Thoughts with the driver concerned.
 

Carlisle

Established Member
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Messages
4,132
Nice part of the world (I lived there briefly). Considering how affluent it is, I can remember being surprised at how rough the town centre can be of an evening, particularly on a Friday/Saturday night.

Thoughts with the driver concerned.

Yes agree with all that, and if I remember correctly like a number of other towns it has quite a few pubs pretty close together so always likley to be a hit with the weekend drinkers
 
Last edited:

Tio Terry

Member
Joined
2 May 2014
Messages
1,178
Location
Spain
Nice part of the world (I lived there briefly). Considering how affluent it is, I can remember being surprised at how rough the town centre can be of an evening, particularly on a Friday/Saturday night.

Thoughts with the driver concerned.

It is a nice part of the world, I've lived here since 1991. It's not known as a violent area but, as has been mentioned, there are a lot of pubs in the town centre. Crime does rocket over the Derby week though, a large influx of "Travellers" is the usual cause.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,825
Location
Epsom
Yes agree with all that, and if I remember correctly like a number of other towns it has quite a few pubs pretty close together so always likley to be a hit with the weekend drinkers

"A few pubs" is putting it mildly; there's been two or three more restaurant and "lounge" type places opened up recently which have somehow managed to obtain licences.

After Friday and Saturday nights, the pavements in and around the town centre are littered with broken glass everywhere.




Returning to the subject; I forgot earlier that sometimes drivers are changed on through trains - there is a very small driver depot at Epsom ( unless that's changed recently? ).
 

Juniper Driver

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2007
Messages
2,074
Location
SWR Metals
Not surprised at all.I came across a very abusive passenger last year and I really thought I was at risk and thought possibly he was drugged up.Apart from that I'm not saying anything else about that incident.

Not impressed with the general public at times.Especially when the service is buggered up and they need someone to take it out on.

Bring on D.O .O.:roll:
 
Last edited:

theironroad

Established Member
Joined
21 Nov 2014
Messages
3,697
Location
London
Not surprised at all.I came across a very abusive passenger last year and I really thought I was at risk and thought possibly he was drugged up.Apart from that I'm not saying anything else about that incident.

Not impressed with the general public at times.Especially when the service is buggered up and they need someone to take it out on.

Bring on D.O .O.:roll:

I'm not sure but think this incident may have been a southern doo train. There's a relevant time train shown on RTT terminating at Epsom before being delayed going into the sidings.

I wonder what the set up for doo drivers at Epsom at that time of night is when the train has to be walked through to be checked and cleared before going empties? Are there still station staff at Epsom at midnight and are they required to check train?

Something else aslef and rmt should be checking out???
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,391
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
It is a nice part of the world, I've lived here since 1991. It's not known as a violent area but, as has been mentioned, there are a lot of pubs in the town centre. Crime does rocket over the Derby week though, a large influx of "Travellers" is the usual cause.

I lived there until five years ago, when it had become very much less pleasant than when we moved there in 1994. Aside from the architectural vandalism of the town (including the station), the level of violence and anti-social behaviour had rocketed.

However, individual incidents of drunken violence can happen anywhere, of course.
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
Returning to the subject; I forgot earlier that sometimes drivers are changed on through trains - there is a very small driver depot at Epsom ( unless that's changed recently? ).

Drivers and indeed conductors do change trains there. You are correct that there is a small drivers' depot, for Southern only.

I'm not sure but think this incident may have been a southern doo train. There's a relevant time train shown on RTT terminating at Epsom before being delayed going into the sidings.

I wonder what the set up for doo drivers at Epsom at that time of night is when the train has to be walked through to be checked and cleared before going empties? Are there still station staff at Epsom at midnight and are they required to check train?

Something else aslef and rmt should be checking out???

Yes, Epsom station should always have staff available from first to last train, as they are required for dispatch of all trains on certain platforms, and they do also check and lock out trains for ECS moves. Bizarrely, the SWT dispatch policy does not ever seem to require them, even though visibility still isn't ideal with guards, and it's a pretty busy station.

It is horrible that a driver was assaulted and there is no excuse for someone doing that, but there are plenty of locals who need careful handling and it is unlikely that the driver was simply sitting in their cab if a drunk person managed to pull them from the train (they'd have to negotiate the cab doors, which can be tricky enough to open when you're sober on the older 377s or 455s). Therefore, though I don't know the full picture, I suggest perhaps it could have been the case that the driver was trying to empty out the train or deal with an incident by themselves. It's a sad reflection of society, but if this was the case, it's another reason why I wish they wouldn't, unless at the few unstaffed stations where they do need to lock out a train on their own.

It's always better to have someone else to turn to, to diffuse the situation or call for assistance. In addition, a driver who just wants to speed things up and get home promptly is unlikely to feel particularly sympathetic to passengers who've overslept or overstayed their welcome, and I have seen this cause a considerable backlash at times. Being asked to snap out of "driving" (or sometimes "guard") mode and deal with chucking out drunk people is something which I have seen a number of crew make a bit of a mess of doing over the last few years, as the two sets of circumstances do need very different skills. It's unfortunate that people aren't reasonable, but that's what happens when you mix the poor morale and unpopular uniform of Britain's least-liked rail operator, and the chaos of weekend revellers who are more than a bit tired and emotional. In none of this am I blaming the driver, just a combination of unfortunate custom and practice, which has conspired against them in the worst of ways.
 
Last edited:

Blamethrower

Member
Joined
13 Oct 2014
Messages
384
Location
Bedfordshire
Just because an area is affluent does not mean that everyone there is well behaved.

People seem to think this of St Albans too

I actually find the more affluent places have more problems with drinkers than non-affluent places. When I lived in St Albans it was a nightmare at night, glasses strewn across the town, our Saab was attacked (whilst parked outside our house) 3 times and I lost count the amount of time drunkards woke me up at night.

I know that there is the "visitors" to posh places that drive up figures, but every time I saw anything in St Albans, there were all boorish, drunk locals.

Any ideas as to the cause?

Rich people stress themselves out more because of the high pressure of their jobs?
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,851
Yes, Epsom station should always have staff available from first to last train, as they are required for dispatch of all trains on certain platforms, and they do also check and lock out trains for ECS moves. Bizarrely, the SWT dispatch policy does not ever seem to require them, even though visibility still isn't ideal with guards, and it's a pretty busy station.

Not required to be dispatched at Epsom but the platform staff do tend to dispatch trains in the peak, and help with checking trains which are terminating and proceeding ECS. Personally I've always thought visibility was fine at Epsom on Platforms 2 and 4, at least with up to 8-carriage trains which is the maximum we can currently call at Epsom with.
 

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611
Rich people stress themselves out more because of the high pressure of their jobs?

Interestingly railstaff of all grades I've spoken to, to a man, agree that the worst trouble comes not from those we might think of as "the usual suspects" (young blokes in hoodies), but guys in suits after a few drinks.

Obviously that's a sweeping generalisation, but perhaps it is an accurate one.
 

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611

Those statements are not mutually exclusive, if that is the point you're trying to make (I certainly hope it isn't).

Surely it's appallingly savage for anyone to attack another person doing their job, irrespective of injuries sustained?
 
Last edited:

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,215
Location
No longer here
Those statements are not mutually exclusive, if that is the point you're trying to make.

Surely it's appallingly savage for anyone to attack another person doing their job, irrespective of injuries sustained?

I'm just trying to bring a sense of perspective, and water down the accompanying hyperbole that so often surrounds incidents involving rail staff.

"Appallingly savage" is something I would use to describe the Nanking Massacre.

It remains completely unacceptable to attack an innocent person doing their job, and I support the work of the unions in reducing this kind of incident.
 

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611
I'm just trying to bring a sense of perspective, and water down the accompanying hyperbole that so often surrounds incidents involving rail staff.

"Appallingly savage" is something I would use to describe the Nanking Massacre.

It remains completely unacceptable to attack an innocent person doing their job, and I support the work of the unions in reducing this kind of incident.

It's hardly hyperbole. A physical attack on someone in uniform who is doing no more than their job is plumbing the depths of what human beings are capable of, in my view. We are all aware it is an attack on one individual no one here is comparing it to the Nanking Massacre, the Holocaust, or anything else.

Choice of words aside, most on this thread are agreed on it's seriousness. Your post adds little other than seemingly attempting to diminish this which makes me question your motives somewhat!
 

Joe Paxton

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2017
Messages
2,465
It's hardly hyperbole. A physical attack on someone in uniform who is doing no more than their job is plumbing the depths of what human beings are capable of, in my view. We are all aware it is an attack on one individual no one here is comparing it to the Nanking Massacre, the Holocaust, or anything else.

Choice of words aside, most on this thread are agreed on it's seriousness. Your post adds little other than seemingly attempting to diminish this which makes me question your motives somewhat!

I didn't have a problem with AlterEgo's post. I thought much the same when I read the "appalling savagery" comment upthread.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,055
Location
UK
Just because an area is affluent does not mean that everyone there is well behaved.

People seem to think this of St Albans too

I actually find the more affluent places have more problems with drinkers than non-affluent places. When I lived in St Albans it was a nightmare at night, glasses strewn across the town, our Saab was attacked (whilst parked outside our house) 3 times and I lost count the amount of time drunkards woke me up at night.

I know that there is the "visitors" to posh places that drive up figures, but every time I saw anything in St Albans, there were all boorish, drunk locals.

Any ideas as to the cause?

Rich people stress themselves out more because of the high pressure of their jobs?
Funny you say this as for some time (six months or more) Welwyn Garden City is suffering problems you'd have normally assumed was way out of character for the area.

So the more I read these stories, the more it seems that there's a pattern emerging. As you say, it's mostly locals causing the problems.
 
Last edited:

Bromley boy

Established Member
Joined
18 Jun 2015
Messages
4,611
I didn't have a problem with AlterEgo's post. I thought much the same when I read the "appalling savagery" comment upthread.

Well let's hope you and "alter ego" are never in a position where you're attacked at work. If you are you may be less quick to split hairs and argue about subtle shades of meaning.

It's worth remembering, although there were thankfully no major injuries on this occasion, these attacks sometimes lead to staff being left permanently disabled and unable to work again. Therefore ruining their families' quality of life and losing them their livelihoods.
 
Last edited:

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,215
Location
No longer here
Well let's hope you and "alter ego" are never in a position where you're attacked at work. If you are you may be less quick to split hairs and argue about subtle shades of meaning!

I wonder if either of you work in jobs where you have to deal with drunk/violent/angry members of the public while wearing a uniform.

It's worth remembering, although there were thankfully no major injuries in this occasion, these attacks sometimes lead to staff being left disabled and never able to work again. Therefore ruining their families quality of life and losing them their livelihoods.

Oh for goodness' sake, calm down.

I have been attacked at work, when I was 16, by a Traveller wanting more than what he'd paid for in McDonald's. It wasn't what I'd call "appallingly savage", he was just a w***er. Yes, poor me, just a callow youth on minimum wage, in a crappy uniform, telling someone they didn't want to hear, and getting assaulted. Boo hoo.

Describing someone being pulled from a train and [insert unspecified assault here which police confirm resulted in no serious injuries] is not "appallingly savage". It is, nonetheless, entirely unacceptable.

Wind down the rhetoric, it's starting to get warm in here again and it does not help.
 

Joe Paxton

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2017
Messages
2,465
Well let's hope you and "alter ego" are never in a position where you're attacked at work. If you are you may be less quick to split hairs and argue about subtle shades of meaning.

It's worth remembering, although there were thankfully no major injuries on this occasion, these attacks sometimes lead to staff being left permanently disabled and unable to work again. Therefore ruining their families' quality of life and losing them their livelihoods.

I've been attacked somewhere I worked in the past, yes. More than once.

I'm not belittling the incident whatsoever. I'm just being honest and saying that I thought the words "appalling savagery" came across as rather OTT.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top