Conscription - Do you think it could happen in the 21st century?.

james60059 · 7 Feb 2017

As we're living in quite an uncertain time with conflict such as happening in Syria can anyone see conscription ever being reintroduced should the need arise for people between a certain age?. I seen an article last year (or may have been the year before.....) that conscription wouldn't be ruled out if any conflict boiled over.

What would your thoughts be if this happened or if you fell into the age bracket (18-50 I think was mentioned??). I was asking some of the younger lads at work last night funnily enough and their responses varied from I ain't joining the army to things like I'm not fighting anyone elses war

Cheers.

James

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DarloRich · 7 Feb 2017

not a chance it will happen unless in the most dire national emergency.

AlterEgo · 7 Feb 2017

This is unlikely ever to happen again.

Armed forces are now professional and agile bodies, which perform increasingly technical/niche tasks. There is no requirement for a large standing army.

An increase in reserve strength will happen and is already being exercised.

furnessvale · 7 Feb 2017

AlterEgo said:
This is unlikely ever to happen again.

Armed forces are now professional and agile bodies, which perform increasingly technical/niche tasks. There is no requirement for a large standing army.

An increase in reserve strength will happen and is already being exercised.

I tend to agree but I never say never.

There could be a theoretical major war in the future. What would happen if there were not enough volunteer HGV drivers or medics for example? Would we then conscript them?

In theory we could train HGV drivers from scratch but I am not so sure about the medics!

adrock1976 · 7 Feb 2017

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is the right to be a conscientious objector, which is enshrined in international law.

It is amazing how government leaders never get their own hands dirty in conflict/on an ego trip. Perhaps a solution may be for the leaders to met on a remote uninhabitable island away from civilisation and sort out their conflicts/egos there, so as to avoid civillians being caught up in the mess.

Johnuk123 · 7 Feb 2017

furnessvale said:
I tend to agree but I never say never.

There could be a theoretical major war in the future. What would happen if there were not enough volunteer HGV drivers or medics for example? Would we then conscript them?

In theory we could train HGV drivers from scratch but I am not so sure about the medics!

Do you think that a major war is only theoretical ?

Bletchleyite · 7 Feb 2017

Johnuk123 said:
Do you think that a major war is only theoretical ?

A major war fought with unskilled infantry is infinitesimally unlikely.

Any major war (which I agree is a possibility) will be fought using chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, aircraft as well as guerrilla tactics. Army recruitment may well increase heavily, but conscripts are little use to such wars.

furnessvale · 7 Feb 2017

Johnuk123 said:
Do you think that a major war is only theoretical ?

OK. Theoretically, there could be a major war in the future.

That better?

TheEdge · 7 Feb 2017

It could come back in the event of WW3 but in any other case I doubt it here.

Professional armies tend to be better than conscript ones, the Falklands is one of the best examples of this, a much smaller professional British force defeated a larger entrenched Argentine force.

STEVIEBOY1 · 7 Feb 2017

There was a series of programmes a few years ago, based on the National Service that young men had to do I think from the 1940s until the 1960s and infact some of the lads, when they got over the initial shock of the regime, quite enjoyed it. Some European countries still have a form of conscription/national service, either in their armed services or in the community, like helping old people etc etc.

TheEdge · 7 Feb 2017

I think you mean Lads Army and Bad Lads Army.

They were brilliant, I loved the Corporals in that.

AlterEgo · 7 Feb 2017

TheEdge said:
I think you mean Lads Army and Bad Lads Army.

They were brilliant, I loved the Corporals in that.

The corporals in the original series were actually retired Warrant Officers, which is why they were both class acts.

TheEdge · 7 Feb 2017

AlterEgo said:
The corporals in the original series were actually retired Warrant Officers, which is why they were both class acts.

Corporal Nauyokas runs a motivationl training company these days. :lol:

me123 · 7 Feb 2017

I have to agree with the sentiment that conscription to infantry (as happened in years gone by) is unlikely. Whilst we're probably closer to all out war than any time since the end of WW2, war itself has changed. The government no longer needs cannon fodder. War is fought with technology; it is much less about direct combat and can be fought more remotely (with missiles, fighter drones, etc). What direct combat remains is much more tactical, and better fought by skilled soldiers than someone like me, whose only experience with guns is on the Playstation.

If we do see conscription in wartime, it will probably be completely different to what was seen at the start of the 20th Century. Instead of unskilled men being given guns and basic training, I think you are more likely to see people conscripted to unskilled background jobs, or into areas where they already have skills (medics being an example already mentioned).

Busaholic · 7 Feb 2017

ANYTHING can happen now. I'm 68 and it would not seriously surprise me to find myself 'called up' in some regard, with me having to prove my physical incapacity or moral turpitude to escape it. I'm deadly serious, by the way.

Johnuk123 · 7 Feb 2017

Busaholic said:
ANYTHING can happen now. I'm 68 and it would not seriously surprise me to find myself 'called up' in some regard, with me having to prove my physical incapacity or moral turpitude to escape it. I'm deadly serious, by the way.

I think you're pretty safe from being called up.

backontrack · 7 Feb 2017

I b****y well hope not.

Busaholic · 7 Feb 2017

backontrack said:
I ****ing well hope not.

That is how I feel about the subject of war. I don't swear often.

I 'escaped' conscription by a few years first time round, which I was very pleased about, even though I'd been in the army cadet force at school (not quite compulsory in theory, only in practice!)

AlterEgo · 7 Feb 2017

backontrack said:
I ****ing well hope not.

That is how I feel about the subject of war. I don't swear often.

You don't know the circumstances behind any potential call up.

There are some situations where I would not even wait to be conscripted; I'd be at the recruiting office. (RAF please, I'm delicate!)

Bevan Price · 7 Feb 2017

james60059 said:
As we're living in quite an uncertain time with conflict such as happening in Syria can anyone see conscription ever being reintroduced should the need arise for people between a certain age?. I seen an article last year (or may have been the year before.....) that conscription wouldn't be ruled out if any conflict boiled over.

What would your thoughts be if this happened or if you fell into the age bracket (18-50 I think was mentioned??). I was asking some of the younger lads at work last night funnily enough and their responses varied from I ain't joining the army to things like I'm not fighting anyone elses war

Cheers.

James

If conflict "boiled over", it would be too late for conscription.

The survivors would need experts in how to clear radioactive dust, and how to feed themselves and remain healthy without facilities we now value as essential (electricity, gas, clean water, etc.)

tbtc · 7 Feb 2017

AlterEgo said:
Armed forces are now professional and agile bodies, which perform increasingly technical/niche tasks. There is no requirement for a large standing army

^^ This ^^

If there's another major war, it'll be with drones, with rockets, a few well-trained staff pressing buttons, with relatively minimal human involvement (compared to previous major wars).

IF we see conscription, it'll be more about "coming up with a populist headline-grabbing idea to appeal to older voters, keeping troublesome lads off the streets" rather than a genuine need for a mass-participation army.

furnessvale · 7 Feb 2017

AlterEgo said:
You don't know the circumstances behind any potential call up.

There are some situations where I would not even wait to be conscripted; I'd be at the recruiting office. (RAF please, I'm delicate!)

A friend of mine was in the RAF, other ranks, not an officer. He loved it.

As he said, it is the only branch of the forces where you wave goodbye to the officer as he flies off to fight, while you go back to the NAAFI for a pint!

Trog · 7 Feb 2017

Be warned wars never seem to turn out how people expect them to before hand. Remember "It will all be over by Christmas" etc.

If everyone thinks the next war will be fought by men with shiny red buttons, I would not bother to take any button polish with me to the front.

As for leaders never doing any of the fighting remember that Churchill having been sacked as First Lord of the Admiralty, then served as an officer in the trenches on the Western Front during WW1. So it does happen.

Trog · 7 Feb 2017

Busaholic said:
ANYTHING can happen now. I'm 68 and it would not seriously surprise me to find myself 'called up' in some regard, with me having to prove my physical incapacity or moral turpitude to escape it. I'm deadly serious, by the way.

If you are capable of moral turpitude you are probably fit enough to conscript. :lol:

STEVIEBOY1 · 8 Feb 2017

TheEdge said:
I think you mean Lads Army and Bad Lads Army.

They were brilliant, I loved the Corporals in that.

Yes, those were the programmes. Agree with you about the Corporals, they were great, there was a good Sergeant in it as well.

I think some of the "Conscripts" like the regime as it was the first time really that some of them had any male role models to look up to.

The above mentioned Corporals & Sgt reminded me of my PT Masters at school in the 1960s & 1970s.!

DynamicSpirit · 8 Feb 2017

Trog said:
As for leaders never doing any of the fighting remember that Churchill having been sacked as First Lord of the Admiralty, then served as an officer in the trenches on the Western Front during WW1. So it does happen.

Indeed. Up until about 300 years ago, it was quite common for Kings, barons, etc. to lead their own armies into battle. Somehow, that still didn't prevent England/Britain/Europe from being regularly convulsed by all sorts of senseless wars and civil wars in which ordinary people who had no say in the war would get slaughtered by the thousand. And more often than not, the main reason for the fighting was either because one King/Duke/whatever wanted a bit more power for himself, or wanted to settle some personal score, or because someone who wasn't King thought they should be. As a good example for anyone interested, just look up the history of the Wars of the Roses. Kinda puts some of the cynicism about some the more recent wars that the UK and other Western nations have been involved with into some perspective.

DarloRich · 8 Feb 2017

Johnuk123 said:
I think you're pretty safe from being called up.

tbh if it ever got to the the level of conscription I would think steps would be taken to fill back room non combatant roles with the old/younger and women to free up fighting age men for the front.

As an aside - I am sure there were conscription plans as part of the Transition to War arrangements in the cold war, at least in response to massed soviet conventional attack on western Europe.

Johnuk123 · 8 Feb 2017

DarloRich said:
tbh if it ever got to the the level of conscription I would think steps would be taken to fill back room non combatant roles with the old/younger and women to free up fighting age men for the front.

As an aside - I am sure there were conscription plans as part of the Transition to War arrangements in the cold war, at least in response to massed soviet conventional attack on western Europe.

There are and always have been contingency measures to bring back conscription within days in the event of a major conflict.

DarloRich · 8 Feb 2017

Johnuk123 said:
There are and always have been contingency measures to bring back conscription within days in the event of a major conflict.

I have a bad back and flat feet. I will do the filing.

Trog · 8 Feb 2017

DarloRich said:
I have a bad back and flat feet

Expendable cannon fodder then, and that gets you off the NHS's books too, a win win situation at least for them.

Conscription - Do you think it could happen in the 21st century?.

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