Odd (and I think stupid) routing through Swindon station

brad465 · 19 Feb 2017

Earlier today I traveled from Paddington to Bath on the 11:36, which called only at Reading on the way.

When it came to passing through Swindon, the signalman decided to route the train all the way across to the far platform on the north side, which meant crossing all the tracks, then going right back across the other side to continue on, without calling at the station as it was not timetabled to. There were no trains in any platform or the through line, and a HST was held up on the other side of the station while this idiotic maneuver took place. It slowed the journey down obviously and was much more complex than just going through on the Down Main or the through line.

So my simple question is, why on earth might the signalman have decided to do this?

RailUK Forums

800001 · 19 Feb 2017

brad465 said:
Earlier today I traveled from Paddington to Bath on the 11:36, which called only at Reading on the way.

When it came to passing through Swindon, the signalman decided to route the train all the way across to the far platform on the north side, which meant crossing all the tracks, then going right back across the other side to continue on, without calling at the station as it was not timetabled to. There were no trains in any platform or the through line, and a HST was held up on the other side of the station while this idiotic maneuver took place. It slowed the journey down obviously and was much more complex than just going through on the Down Main or the through line.

So my simple question is, why on earth might the signalman have decided to do this?

Points failure, signal failure, track fault, interlock problem, numerous reasons could of been done to keep train moving on time.

Darandio · 19 Feb 2017

And yet the train wasn't that late on arrival at Bath Spa, so why the melodramatics?

ComUtoR · 19 Feb 2017

JamesGar said:
Points failure, signal failure, track fault, interlock problem, numerous reasons could of been done to keep train moving on time.

Engineering works, Booked pathway, route refresh, blocked platform, etc. etc.

I've had the Signaller ring me up and apologise for routing me a certain way. Personally the train gets from point A to point B. Inbetween; send me any way you want.

Mag_seven · 19 Feb 2017

why the melodramatics?

Thats what I thought - I mean worse things happen at sea!

signallerscot · 19 Feb 2017

Which is more likely?

1) signallers are morons who send the trains any way they fancy just for the hell of it, or
2) some trainspotters who think they know everything about how the railway works actually don't have the faintest clue what they're talking about.

Over to you..

MidnightFlyer · 19 Feb 2017

Not the greatest of sources, but judging by OTT and RTT it was booked through platform 1. Bit of an odd routeing but they must have their reasons...

GW43125 · 19 Feb 2017

The signallers do (usually) know what they're doing but I have been known to be deliberately antagonistic at times

LordCreed · 19 Feb 2017

It was booked through platform 1. The fact Swindon has ARS means most likely the computer did as it was programmed.

ComUtoR · 19 Feb 2017

signallerscot said:
Which is more likely?

1) signallers are morons who send the trains any way they fancy just for the hell of it

You'd be surprised. Nothing amuses me more than being routed onto a Red, across the points (fast to slow) then back at the next set of points (slow to fast) Seriously WTF London bridge !

Just as worse. Being brought to a stand at a Red during leaf-fall with a CONTACT SIGNALLER message. Only to be told its slippery out there !!! !

Or when you get a really snarky Signaller giving a speech about Holding Signals 'beacuse it's his job to regulate etc. etc.' forgetting that I'm calling 'because it's my job' Ahh London Bridge how I love thee.

Apologies in advance. The Chenin Blanc made me do it.

On a serious note. It's only because I've been driving so long and have visited the box and spoken with Signallers that I can understand some of the reasons why things happen that I can brush it off or see the funny side. There are many new Drivers who do get frustrated with some of the signalling and some of the older generation who get equally frustrated with some of the signalling and routing we receive.

One of my favourite Signaller moments was Vic box ringing me up due to [redacted] and the conversation ending up with "Sorry Driver. That's completely wrong, that would be really stupid. Let me ring you back..."

They ain't morons, just human.

Llanigraham · 19 Feb 2017

GW43125 said:
The signallers do (usually) know what they're doing but I have been known to be deliberately antagonistic at times

Only when you train jockey's p us off!

Joke by the way!

JN114 · 21 Feb 2017

Better connection with the Cheltenham shuttle?

Deepgreen · 21 Feb 2017

JN114 said:
Better connection with the Cheltenham shuttle?

Not from a non-stopping train.

GB · 21 Feb 2017

brad465 said:
Earlier today I traveled from Paddington to Bath on the 11:36, which called only at Reading on the way.

When it came to passing through Swindon, the signalman decided to route the train all the way across to the far platform on the north side, which meant crossing all the tracks, then going right back across the other side to continue on, without calling at the station as it was not timetabled to. There were no trains in any platform or the through line, and a HST was held up on the other side of the station while this idiotic maneuver took place. It slowed the journey down obviously and was much more complex than just going through on the Down Main or the through line.

So my simple question is, why on earth might the signalman have decided to do this?

Probably not a good idea to call it an idiotic manoeuver without knowing the reason for the move in the first place.

IrishDave · 21 Feb 2017

JN114 said:
Better connection with the Cheltenham shuttle?

The train in question was not booked to call at Swindon:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26330/2017/02/19/advanced

09065 · 21 Feb 2017

signallerscot said:
1) signallers are morons who send the trains any way they fancy just for the hell of it

Some colleagues do like giving drivers a route refresher sometimes.

Deepgreen · 21 Feb 2017

brad465 said:
Earlier today I traveled from Paddington to Bath on the 11:36, which called only at Reading on the way.

When it came to passing through Swindon, the signalman decided to route the train all the way across to the far platform on the north side, which meant crossing all the tracks, then going right back across the other side to continue on, without calling at the station as it was not timetabled to. There were no trains in any platform or the through line, and a HST was held up on the other side of the station while this idiotic maneuver took place. It slowed the journey down obviously and was much more complex than just going through on the Down Main or the through line.

So my simple question is, why on earth might the signalman have decided to do this?

On weekdays the 1136 is to Cheltenham. Possibly the routeing has remained in place as an error, or intentionally. It does not conflict with other moves, and perhaps the train you saw waiting on the up line was an early running working (Sunday slack) - probably 1A16 (Bristol to Paddington), due to arrive at Swindon p3 at 1245, three minutes after your train passed at 1242.

Lad Brookes · 21 Feb 2017

Deepgreen said:
Not from a non-stopping train.

It has droplights. What more do you want, a slip coach?

Wilts Wanderer · 21 Feb 2017

IMO -timetable oddity, ARS did as was told. Poor timetable plan, but as it was actually in the plan, didn't cause any actual delay.

tsr · 21 Feb 2017

Wilts Wanderer said:
IMO -timetable oddity, ARS did as was told. Poor timetable plan, but as it was actually in the plan, didn't cause any actual delay.

Beg to differ - the train did seem to lose a couple of minutes passing through the station.

Wilts Wanderer · 21 Feb 2017

It could be just the number was wrong, and this would still force ARS to route as you described, however the obligatory minute of additional time for the approach control allowance for that move would have been missing.

Just speculating of course.

MarkyT · 21 Feb 2017

It's a strange routing, but as LordCreed suggested, if the timetable database booked the service through pl.1, then the ARS in the new signalling will blindly follow those orders. I note almost all the trains on RTT around that time of day were either VAR or STP so it's just possible the routing was a mistake in the short term planning data entry. Next Sunday 1C81 is booked to pass through pl.4, but 10 minutes earlier!

GW43125 · 21 Feb 2017

MarkyT said:
It's a strange routing, but as LordCreed suggested, if the timetable database booked the service through pl.1, then the ARS in the new signalling will blindly follow those orders. I note almost all the trains on RTT around that time of day were either VAR or STP so it's just possible the routing was a mistake in the short term planning data entry. Next Sunday 1C81 is booked to pass through pl.4, but 10 minutes earlier!

ARS just does as it's told-like the time it put us into the loop to let the XC overtake us-which was cancelled much to the disgust of those who bailed at Bristol to catch it! :lol:

Wilts Wanderer · 22 Feb 2017

ARS is only as clever as the rules planned into it. When Didcot went over to ARS operation when TVSC was being opened, there was a Reading-Newcastle Voyager that would run RL to Moreton Cutting, then weave to the ML to overtake a freightliner that was stood on the DRL at Didcot East, then back to the RL to access the Avoider at Didcot East Jcn. Only problem was, that freight often didn't run but the XC would still weave regardless, crossing the UML twice in doing so!

Nippy · 22 Feb 2017

And with more and more flashing aspect signalling going in for junctions it is pretty much too late to do anything once the route has started setting. Down sleepers often get routed through the Up Relief at Maidenhead for the same reason, (wrong platform shown in the timetable that ARS works to).

Deepgreen · 22 Feb 2017

tsr said:
Beg to differ - the train did seem to lose a couple of minutes passing through the station.

RTT has no report of the train (1C81) between Uffington and Swindon so it's impossible for me to see where the three minutes of lost time occurred (the OP may be able to recall whether the train was stopped, or simply checked by, signals at Swindon). However, the fact that the train was routed through platform 1 did not in itself cause delay to any other train that I can discern. 1C81 continued to lose time after Swindon, to be 8 late by Thingley, for reasons unknown.

brad465 · 22 Feb 2017

Yes I was probably over reacting at the time and some suggestions in the thread now do appear plausible. However given the train was late into Bath (albeit by only 5 minutes ish) I still personally think if it was possible to run straight through it should have done, although some of the lateness may also have come from slowing down at Chippenham to allow a Swindon-bound Melksham branch train to clear off the junction.

The platforms appeared to have timetabled trains on their departure screens (though they were too far away from sight to make out specific services) so the lines being out of action I think is unlikely.

fowler9 · 22 Feb 2017

I have often wondered about similar things to this. Yesterday the late running 17:39 South Parkway to Lime Street was sent down the fast line to Liverpool with the 17:47 crawling behind it. Today the less late running 17:39 was sent over to the slows and was overtaken by the only slightly late 17:47 which overtook it just after Mossley Hill. As others have said though it could have been done for any number of reasons.

D1009 · 23 Feb 2017

Nippy said:
And with more and more flashing aspect signalling going in for junctions it is pretty much too late to do anything once the route has started setting. Down sleepers often get routed through the Up Relief at Maidenhead for the same reason, (wrong platform shown in the timetable that ARS works to).

Is there no "sense checking" of the data coming into ARS from Train Planning by the signalling centre staff?

bb21 · 23 Feb 2017

Darandio said:
And yet the train wasn't that late on arrival at Bath Spa, so why the melodramatics?

I see no melodramatics.

Someone saw something odd, and asked a question. Big deal. Not everyone knows the operational side inside out.

Odd (and I think stupid) routing through Swindon station

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