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What are they planning to do with the Class 91s?

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Comstock

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There is probably a thread about this somewhere but I'm really not sure what to search for. According to wiki there are plans to replace some of the Class 91s with newer locos. Whilst they aren't in the first flush of youth anymore, nor are they the oldest things out there by any means.

Are they destined for the scrap yard, or a second life somewhere else.

If there is already a thread on this, apologies. Can someone give me a link or at least tell me what to search for?
 
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sprinterguy

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There's this thread from the tail end of 2015:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123298

This thread from around a year ago:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=127296

This lengthy thread from six months ago:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=135520

And, err, these two threads from less than a fortnight ago:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=142725
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=142652

Suffice to say, the topic has been fairly comprehensively covered since the replacement of the 225 sets with class 801 units came to light. ;)

This despite little progression during that time on what is known to be happening with the class 91s: Six sets are stated within the Virgin East Coast franchise agreement to be retained post-2020 as additional capacity, though it remains to be seen whether a separate commercial order of additional class 801 sets might finish these off as well.
 
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Comstock

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not this again.:roll: .


OK. To be fair I made it very clear I had tried to search for an answer. The number 91 isn't the best thing to be searching for.Just out of interest, what should I have searched for.

I did also go back through the forum for a couple of days (admittedly not a couple of weeks) but couldn't see a live thread.
 

sprinterguy

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OK. To be fair I made it very clear I had tried to search for an answer. The number 91 isn't the best thing to be searching for.Just out of interest, what should I have searched for.

I did also go back through the forum for a couple of days (admittedly not a couple of weeks) but couldn't see a live thread.
I think it's generally agreed that the forum search facility can be a bit inefficient. I tend to search for historic threads via Google (other search engines are available): "Railuk Class 91 future" or "225 future" quite does the trick. :)
 

Comstock

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I think it's generally agreed that the forum search facility can be a bit inefficient. I tend to search for historic threads via Google (other search engines are available): "Railuk Class 91 future" or "225 future" quite does the trick. :)

OK many thanks :)

EDIT: Ouch. I checked pages 1 and 2. Had I gone back just one more page I would have found what I was looking for. Sorry.
 
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DarloRich

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OK many thanks :)

EDIT: Ouch. I checked pages 1 and 2. Had I gone back just one more page I would have found what I was looking for. Sorry.

no worries - there isnt an answer only a lot of semi educated guess work and wild stabs in the dark!
 

yorkie

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OK. To be fair I made it very clear I had tried to search for an answer. The number 91 isn't the best thing to be searching for.Just out of interest, what should I have searched for.
Something like this: "class 91" site:railforums.co.uk

(you could narrow it down further by adding other relevant search terms; as sprinterguy says perhaps adding the word "future" or something)
 

Mag_seven

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Despite more lines being electrified, no doubt they will probably be scrapped or sent to Bulgaria.
 

D365

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They're not really suitable for mixed traffic use though are they.
 

tiptoptaff

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Re-wired to work with 442s as dual voltage?

Come on, someone had to!!
 

TheEdge

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When built, IIRC, they were built as mixed traffic locos. Sloping cab for daytime expresses, blunt end first for overnight freight trains.

My understanding is they were designed so that the could be used on very fast light freights, so really only parcels or TPO services. Don't think you'll be watching Freightliner green 91s plying their trade at 75mph on the WCML anytime soon! :lol:
 

xotGD

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My understanding is they were designed so that the could be used on very fast light freights, so really only parcels or TPO services. Don't think you'll be watching Freightliner green 91s plying their trade at 75mph on the WCML anytime soon! :lol:

A Class 91 did work the 1A40 parcels out of Newcastle on at least one occasion. I don't know if it was blunt end or sharp end leading.
 

D6975

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When built, IIRC, they were built as mixed traffic locos. Sloping cab for daytime expresses, blunt end first for overnight freight trains.

No, sleepers at night. But the sleepers never returned to the ECML after electrification leaving the 91s without a night job.
 

Wivenswold

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Damn, there's not even a reason to bring up class 91s on the GEML anymore. Bulgaria it is.
 

Wivenswold

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There never was a reason to.

I disagree. While they may not have been the best fit for Norwich trips, until August 2016 we didn't know what would be replacing the MK3 sets in the new franchise.
 

D365

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I disagree. While they may not have been the best fit for Norwich trips, until August 2016 we didn't know what would be replacing the MK3 sets in the new franchise.

The Class 91s would be far less suitable than the existing Class 90s, despite thread-loads of posters trying to insist the opposite.
 

Fuzzytop

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I've always been convinced that half a dozen or so will stay put post 2020.

As for the rest, things seem to be looking bleak to me. Entering into the world of make-believe, if they can't get the 92s to play ball it'd be lovely for a handful of 91s to take their duties on the cally sleepers. But I doubt they have sufficient grunt to power the mk5 rakes (not to mention that the 91s have a good few reliability problems of their own) so perhaps best to leave that one with the retractioned 442s... Fit some gensets and turn one into a bimode 91 flex?!
 

CosherB

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I've always been convinced that half a dozen or so will stay put post 2020.

As for the rest, things seem to be looking bleak to me. Entering into the world of make-believe, if they can't get the 92s to play ball it'd be lovely for a handful of 91s to take their duties on the cally sleepers. But I doubt they have sufficient grunt to power the mk5 rakes (not to mention that the 91s have a good few reliability problems of their own) so perhaps best to leave that one with the retractioned 442s... Fit some gensets and turn one into a bimode 91 flex?!

Why so convinced? Surely the ICEC franchise will order more electric IEPs to give fleet uniformity eventually?

As for your other comments (i) 92s are playing ball really rather well these days (ii) why replace 92s on the CS with 30 year old almost clapped-out locos on a service that doesn't need 125mph capability (iii) and in any case, 91s are hopelessly deficient in the ETS department for the new Mk5 stock (how many more times do we need to post that only the 92s meet the new Mk5 ETS requirements among all existing UK traction?)
 

Fuzzytop

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Why so convinced? Surely the ICEC franchise will order more electric IEPs to give fleet uniformity eventually?

As for your other comments (i) 92s are playing ball really rather well these days (ii) why replace 92s on the CS with 30 year old almost clapped-out locos on a service that doesn't need 125mph capability (iii) and in any case, 91s are hopelessly deficient in the ETS department for the new Mk5 stock (how many more times do we need to post that only the 92s meet the new Mk5 ETS requirements among all existing UK traction?)

Eventually yes, it'd clearly make a lot of sense to standardise at some point in the next decade. But surely there will be a medium term future for a small fleet of 91s on the ECML as crowd busters, even once all the DfT-specced 800/801s are in place - especially considering all these additional services coming on stream.

It's good to hear that 92s are in better shape since my last sleeper trip. Though never knew for certain that the ETS requirements of the new CS fleet were too great for anything except 92s in full formation (obviously knew the 90s were no good) - thanks for the clarification.
 

Far north 37

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i think they are suffering from reliability problems to often these days and apart from fast passenger trains which no new stock is really required i cant see them having much of a future well in the uk anyway
 

achmelvic

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I assume/hope one will end up with the AC Loco Group? Ideally 91110 as it's the record holder :)
 

Tim R-T-C

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