'South Western Railway' - branding (discussion)

cjmillsnun · 21 May 2016

swt_passenger said:
Yes but my reply was made earlier in the context that there was a competition going on for the current franchise; whereas the competition is for the next franchise to come.

It is referred to by DfT as the 'South Western franchise' in their documentation today, whatever it has been publicly called in the past.

But the point is that First if they want can continue to use SWT as their trading style as it is owned by DfT. That said, because of Stagecoach using a similar style for EMT, they probably won't want to.

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RobShipway · 22 May 2016

cjmillsnun said:
But the point is that First if they want can continue to use SWT as their trading style as it is owned by DfT. That said, because of Stagecoach using a similar style for EMT, they probably won't want to.

The name SWT can still be used, but just with different colours to what Stagecoach has used.

They could I believe even use LSWR?

fairysdad · 27 Mar 2017

I know it's probably bad form to bump one's own thread, but given that this has now happened, maybe we can use this thread to discuss what will be happening with First's South Western livery/ies?

Bletchleyite · 27 Mar 2017

Agent_c said:
Looks suspiciously like the old ITV logo...

WAGN and Anglia Railways had passing resemblences to regional ITV logos too.

antharro · 27 Mar 2017

A 442 in neon would be interesting... anyone any good with Photoshop?

Suraggu · 27 Mar 2017

If you First's two franchises Great Western Railway amd Transpennine Express corporate colours are out and individual indentites given.
Anyone remember the colours of London & South Western Railway?

59CosG95 · 27 Mar 2017

Suraggu said:
If you First's two franchises Great Western Railway amd Transpennine Express corporate colours are out and individual indentites given.
Anyone remember the colours of London & South Western Railway?

The locos were lime green, and stock was salmon and black IIRC.

swt class 450 · 27 Mar 2017

I know it is unlikely but i am wondering is there a chance that they could possibly brand the new franchise as Great Western Railway (GWR) in the same way that VTWC and VTXC use to use the same branding despite being two separate franchises?

59CosG95 · 27 Mar 2017

swt class 450 said:
I know it is unlikely but i am wondering is there a chance that they could possibly brand the new franchise as Great Western Railway (GWR) in the same way that VTWC and VTXC use to use the same branding despite being two separate franchises?

About a million to one. I suspect the people in the SWT catchment area (self included) would want a brand that would be familiar, so I'd assume some "SWR" brand name (or something similar) would be the order of the day.

Bletchleyite · 27 Mar 2017

59CosG95 said:
About a million to one. I suspect the people in the SWT catchment area (self included) would want a brand that would be familiar, so I'd assume some "SWR" brand name (or something similar) would be the order of the day.

And the DfT likes franchises to be separable.

Wouldn't be totally surprised to see sWr but with a different colour scheme.

pompeyfan · 27 Mar 2017

Surely there's too much conflict between Great Western and South Western?

Roast Veg · 27 Mar 2017

As discussed, not likely to have "First" attached to the franchise. The "rail" or "railway" could be dropped in favour of just "South Western" or even "Southwestern", as in the south east. No chance the Stagecoach colours will stay, and given how TPE is turning out I wouldn't dare hazard a guess to livery yet.

ExRes · 27 Mar 2017

59CosG95 said:
The locos were lime green, and stock was salmon and black IIRC.

And they look amazing, just imagine what staff uniforms in salmon and black would look like

LNW-GW Joint · 27 Mar 2017

The FirstGroup announcement clearly calls it "South Western Railway".
http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/improving-south-western-railway.aspx

Suraggu · 27 Mar 2017

LNW-GW Joint said:
The FirstGroup announcement clearly calls it "South Western Railway".
http://www.firstgroupplc.com/about-firstgroup/uk-rail/improving-south-western-railway.aspx

Thats also the name for the Alliance between TOC and Network Rail.

Fuzzytop · 27 Mar 2017

I note that Stagecoach SWT have rights to (through their MD, Jake Kelly) a web address southwesternrailway.co.uk.

https://who.is/whois/southwesternrailway.co.uk

Not sure how to read this - on one hand, this has been in Stagecoach hands since 2012, and this was of course the name used for the alliance; but on the other, most of the other south western focussed domains have long gone and, if the ownership were to transfer, it'd be easy for the incoming franchise to pick up.

43096 · 29 Mar 2017

Fuzzytop said:
I note that Stagecoach SWT have rights to (through their MD, Jake Kelly) a web address southwesternrailway.co.uk.

https://who.is/whois/southwesternrailway.co.uk

Not sure how to read this - on one hand, this has been in Stagecoach hands since 2012, and this was of course the name used for the alliance; but on the other, most of the other south western focussed domains have long gone and, if the ownership were to transfer, it'd be easy for the incoming franchise to pick up.

Jake Kelly is not (and never has been) SWT MD. He is currently EMT MD.

Bletchleyite · 29 Mar 2017

That sounds like a deliberate kick in the nuts for First (where I was expecting sWr type branding)...

Townsend Hook · 29 Mar 2017

That one URL being spoken for doesn't necessarily rule out 'SWR' as a brand. Even if Stagecoach won't sell it, all FirstMTR would need to do is change the suffix (possibly .com), or maybe just use 'swr.co.uk' or similar.

Bletchleyite · 29 Mar 2017

Stagey have it seems got a few:

Domain name:
swrailway.co.uk

Registrant:
Stagecoach Group Plc

Registrant type:
UK Public Limited Company, (Company number: SC100764)

Registrant's address:
10 Dunkeld Road
Perth
Scotland
PH1 5TW
United Kingdom

Probably more to do with the Partnership of that name than stopping First, though, particularly if you look at the date.

Deepgreen · 29 Mar 2017

Fuzzytop said:
I note that Stagecoach SWT have rights to (through their MD, Jake Kelly) a web address southwesternrailway.co.uk.

https://who.is/whois/southwesternrailway.co.uk

Not sure how to read this - on one hand, this has been in Stagecoach hands since 2012, and this was of course the name used for the alliance; but on the other, most of the other south western focussed domains have long gone and, if the ownership were to transfer, it'd be easy for the incoming franchise to pick up.

Therefore, why can't 'South West Railway' (although less elegant) be used?

pdeaves · 29 Mar 2017

Deepgreen said:
Therefore, why can't 'South West Railway' (although less elegant) be used?

or swr.com, in the same vein as gwr.com?

Feathers44 · 29 Mar 2017

I like the LSWR idea!

cactustwirly · 29 Mar 2017

I reckon they'll keep the SWT name, but with updated branding like Northern/TPE

adc82140 · 29 Mar 2017

Can they do that? Isn't South West Trains a Stagecoach trademark?

I'm liking the LSWR idea as well. Perhaps even an identical livery to GWR, with just the branding different.

416GSi · 29 Mar 2017

danielnez1 said:
The DfT appear to own the SWT trademark so it might be possible that they could retain the name.

To answer the point above.

pdeaves · 29 Mar 2017

danielnez1 said:
The DfT appear to own the SWT trademark so it might be possible that they could retain the name.

It's interesting (to me, anyway) that the entry for that trademark states "The applicant claims the colours blue [South West] and red [dot over I in Trains] as an element of the first mark in the series", but not orange [Trains].

387star · 29 Mar 2017

The old image will surely takes years to remove

South west trains took years to replace network south east related livery but were fortunate in that like chiltern the house colours were similar

Oddly in recent years there have been some strange neutral schemes at stations some including burgendy doors

AlexNL · 29 Mar 2017

I think Stagecoach registered those SW railway related domains just to prevent typosquatting and disgruntled customers from setting up websites to vent their anger.

I am reasonably sure that First can acquire those domain names from Stagecoach if they'd so desire.

Goldfish62 · 29 Mar 2017

387star said:
The old image will surely takes years to remove

South west trains took years to replace network south east related livery but were fortunate in that like chiltern the house colours were similar

Oddly in recent years there have been some strange neutral schemes at stations some including burgendy doors

The burgendy and grey theme is apparently the colours of the still-born SWT-NR alliance, I believe.

Regarding re-livery of the fleet, the 450s and 444 are due a repaint so they'll done as part of the refurb programme. The 455s, 456s, 458s and 707s are off by 2020 so that just leaves the 158s and 159s. Potentially vinyls for those just painted and rest to be refurbed post-August can be put in the new scheme.

Just a theory. The sensible thing, (which means it probably won't happen) is just to keep the names and livery all the same.

'South Western Railway' - branding (discussion)

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