• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

A plea to train companies to SCRAP 'weekend first' upgrade deals

Status
Not open for further replies.

Polarbear

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2008
Messages
1,705
Location
Birkenhead
Well that's because it's dirt cheap, isn't it! You don't really expect to pay twenty quid for an upgrade and then drink the same in free booze, do you?!

First Class accommodation largely sits empty at weekends. It is aimed squarely at the business market, and the majority of those commuters aren't out there commuting on saturdays and sundays. There is a choice between continuing to charge the full whack and having the carriages running around full of fresh air, or developing a suitable prouct to attract the leisure market. It makes a lot of sense. The number of genuine FC ticket holders who are somehow being let down, is very small indeed.

But there's always one...

I was travelling from Aberdeen to Newcastle last Sunday on a very cheap 1st advance, booked through the last seat sale. I was very impressed by the offering provided by EC. Not so the gentleman sat opposite me as during the course of the journey, he moaned at various times about the lack of hot food and the lack of free alcohol. Obviously, I don't know what ticket he had, but I think it would be reasonable to assume that it wasn't a full fare first open.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
Obviously, I don't know what ticket he had, but I think it would be reasonable to assume that it wasn't a full fare first open.

IME the ones on the full fare first open are the ones who let the trolley go by without anything more than a cup of tea. It's people like me on the cheapo tickets that want to take everything that isn't nailed down :lol:
 

rg177

Established Member
Associate Staff
International Transport
Joined
22 Dec 2013
Messages
3,692
Location
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
IME the ones on the full fare first open are the ones who let the trolley go by without anything more than a cup of tea. It's people like me on the cheapo tickets that want to take everything that isn't nailed down [emoji38]
Indeed, it's always the businessmen on the weekday VTEC services down to London that refuse a hot breakfast while I'm sat on my £8.90 advance from Newcastle to York managing to fit in the full service of toast, tea and hot food by around Skelton Junction as I'm gathering my things and going to get off :lol:

As for weekend first, I used to do it on TPE a lot (The 0706 off Newcastle to Lime Street is often quite wedged) but since it was hiked from £6 to £10 I haven't bothered so much. That and the 0706 has been significantly quieter recently with a fair few seemingly shifting onto the new 0748.
 
Last edited:

Master29

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2015
Messages
1,967
no he doesn't. He is a snob. I detest snobs.

Imagine all those common oiks daring to enter his FC carriage and disturb his quiet reflection of Goethe while sipping his Sancerre in between nibbling on caviar and foie gras. How dare they? Prat.:roll:

Sorry to say sir but whilst looking down ones nose at oiks of the common variety one has now become the very thing one detests so much....i.e a snob.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
But there's always one...

I was travelling from Aberdeen to Newcastle last Sunday on a very cheap 1st advance, booked through the last seat sale. I was very impressed by the offering provided by EC. Not so the gentleman sat opposite me as during the course of the journey, he moaned at various times about the lack of hot food and the lack of free alcohol. Obviously, I don't know what ticket he had, but I think it would be reasonable to assume that it wasn't a full fare first open.

Some people appear to think that sitting in First buys them access to some sort of exclusive society, despite having paid peanuts. These people can sometimes be encountered during the week travelling on First Advances too, although the reasons for complaint are then generally fewer.
 

JamesT

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2015
Messages
2,640
I've only done a weekend first a couple of times and I understand the limitations given the price. But it does disappoint me that there isn't the same selection of food in terms of catering for allergies. If you're gluten-free then you're essentially getting crisps. (Unless they happen to have yoghurt or fruit left over from breakfast).
 

SwindonBert

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2017
Messages
184
Location
Swindon
With GWR's zones​ you get the situation where the difference between first & standard is less than the weekend first upgrade.
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
With GWR's zones​ you get the situation where the difference between first & standard is less than the weekend first upgrade.

Where have you found this to be the case? Many weekend travellers are on Super Off Peaks, the full fare upgrades are usually huge.
 

SwindonBert

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2017
Messages
184
Location
Swindon
Where have you found this to be the case? Many weekend travellers are on Super Off Peaks, the full fare upgrades are usually huge.

Chippenham to Bath Spa, which are in 2 zones, single first class fare is £13.10, return £17.10. standard £5.70 single, £5.80 return
 

BestWestern

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2011
Messages
6,736
Chippenham to Bath Spa, which are in 2 zones, single first class fare is £13.10, return £17.10. standard £5.70 single, £5.80 return

That's a very rare exception though, most tend not to bother with an upgrade for a ten minute journey. I wouldn't, either. It really isn't worth it.
 

HH

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2009
Messages
4,505
Location
Essex
Parody or not, there are sadly people very much like the ones portrayed in these pieces...

Well, it wouldn't be funny if these people didn't actually exist. You seem to have found a particularly noxious one though!
 

Clansman

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2016
Messages
2,571
Location
Hong Kong
Rediculous article.

It's public transport, not privileged transport. All passengers deserve equal status on the railways no matter their age, race, gender, social class etc. First Class is no longer the prime dividing line between social classes as it probably was back in "the day", it's simply an enhanced quality of travel available at a premium for everyone. If trains don't suit your working needs, the answer is plain as the ridiculousness of the writer's argument - it's not the industry's nor society's problem.

Get a grip
 
Last edited:

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,668
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
Slap her in the face, that would have given her something genuinely worth moaning about.

Or, tell her to STFU in a loud enough voice that the entire carriage can hear. nothing like public humiliation to take the wind out of a gob****e.
<D

Believe me the thought did cross my mind....... <D

HH said:
Well, it wouldn't be funny if these people didn't actually exist. You seem to have found a particularly noxious one though!

Very true. But thankfully this is a fairly rare situation, most people we encounter on TPE first class are either business people traveling on expenses or people like us just taking advantage of advance prices and railcards. A very few seem to think it is about social status or class. I mean after all with all due respect to TPE it is hardly the Savoy on rails. ;)
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,340
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Even assuming the article is a joke (what's it doing in the DM otherwise?), I think a point is being missed here among all the outrage - it doesn't matter what category of accommodation being used, everybody should be able to expect to be able to travel without extreme annoyance from a mass of badly-behaved people. Weekend first is only a side issue, the main one being the proportion of people who seem not to be able to behave acceptably in public and not even to realise or care about their impact on those around them.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,685
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Even assuming the article is a joke (what's it doing in the DM otherwise?), I think a point is being missed here among all the outrage - it doesn't matter what category of accommodation being used, everybody should be able to expect to be able to travel without extreme annoyance from a mass of badly-behaved people. Weekend first is only a side issue, the main one being the proportion of people who seem not to be able to behave acceptably in public and not even to realise or care about their impact on those around them.

Sums things up perfectly.
 

Mutant Lemming

Established Member
Joined
8 Aug 2011
Messages
3,194
Location
London
Sums things up perfectly.

Which is why we need MORE classifications not less... a carriage that is for 'our types' whatever that may be.
Granted trains will have to be 46 cars long with different eating/seating/ear protection arrangements but with most tastes catered for from hen party hysteria to mausoleum gentlemen's club we could all nosey up to like minded people in our own cocoon away from all the other nasty dirty little people (unless of course the nasty dirty little people car is your thing).

I was going to suggest a Fight Club carriage but London Midland already have whole fight club trains on certain routes.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,182
Location
Fenny Stratford
Even assuming the article is a joke (what's it doing in the DM otherwise?), I think a point is being missed here among all the outrage - it doesn't matter what category of accommodation being used, everybody should be able to expect to be able to travel without extreme annoyance from a mass of badly-behaved people. Weekend first is only a side issue, the main one being the proportion of people who seem not to be able to behave acceptably in public and not even to realise or care about their impact on those around them.

with you, of course, being the sole arbiter of the required standard of behaviour?
 

GodAtum

On Moderation
Joined
11 Dec 2009
Messages
2,633
with you, of course, being the sole arbiter of the required standard of behaviour?

Well, I would like people to have manners and to obey social norms. Because different people have different ideas on what is acceptable behaviour in public places, it is a good idea to know some specific boundaries and guidelines to follow that are not considered offensive to most people. Although not everything you do will please everybody, it is a good idea to not offend the majority of those around you.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
6,340
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Well, I would like people to have manners and to obey social norms. Because different people have different ideas on what is acceptable behaviour in public places, it is a good idea to know some specific boundaries and guidelines to follow that are not considered offensive to most people. Although not everything you do will please everybody, it is a good idea to not offend the majority of those around you.

It's really not difficult is it - don't bellow at your companions, don't put your feet on the seats, don't spread your belongings over several seats, don't smoke, don't molest others, etc. We all know what the boundaries are with a fair degree of similarity. This applies in any class - first is no different to standard in this regard. Most people who have any degree of social aptitude know roughly where the boundaries are.

This reminds me of an incident a few weeks ago when I boarded my train at Betchworth and sat down. I became aware of a man sitting in the next bay who started a video 'phone call (without earphones) with his wife and baby, at high volume, resulting in the area being blasted by the sound of his baby crying and the general confusion of voices and noise. After a few minutes of this I turned to him and saw with amazement that he was a GWR staff member, in uniform but off duty, apparently! I 'robustly' asked him to stop and he did, but his defensive response included - "it's not like I'm in first class or anything"! Suffice to say, that was the red rag, and I told him exactly what I thought of his behaviour, regardless of class!!
 
Last edited:

al78

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2013
Messages
2,400
with you, of course, being the sole arbiter of the required standard of behaviour?

No need to designate one person as arbiter (and that is a straw man argument anyway). All that is necessary is to advocate behaviour that doesn't unnecessarily impose costs or unpleasentness on other people, i.e. treat others as you would like to be treated yourself, basic consideration for other people, recognition that public places are not an extension of your house and therefore you can't just do as you please and stuff others. This is all basic social etiquette that your parents should have taught you, and is essential in our ever crowded societies to ensure we all get along and have functioning societies.
 

sonorguy

Member
Joined
18 May 2011
Messages
158
Oh I love self-proclaimed etiquette expert William Hanson.

His review of British Airways premium economy was a joy to behold. I actually think he was being serious, too.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...behave-premium-economy-usually-turn-left.html


He's never being serious, he's basically a comedian and it's an act, designed to generate faux outrage in an amusing (if you like that kind of thing) style. It sends himself up as much as it does anything else. If you claim yourself to be Britain's leading etiquette expert and all your advice is from the 1950's, as his is, then that's the big clue.

And it clearly does what it's supposed to, as he's obviously making a living out of it.
 
Last edited:

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
If you claim yourself to be Britain's leading etiquette expert and all your advice is from the 1950's, as his is, then that's the big clue.

He's very funny, but I always got the feeling he was joking-not-joking about a lot of it. And I'm certainly not convinced the Daily Wail do satire ;)
 

Marvin

Member
Joined
7 Jul 2011
Messages
120
Even assuming the article is a joke (what's it doing in the DM otherwise?), I think a point is being missed here among all the outrage - it doesn't matter what category of accommodation being used, everybody should be able to expect to be able to travel without extreme annoyance from a mass of badly-behaved people. Weekend first is only a side issue, the main one being the proportion of people who seem not to be able to behave acceptably in public and not even to realise or care about their impact on those around them.

Yes, everybody should be able to travel without such annoyances regardless of the class on their ticket. But so long as TOCs keep refusing to police it in standard class, I'm going to keep buying first class tickets in order to escape. Which means I'm going to get a tad miffed if doing so fails to achieve said escape.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,532
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
It shouldn't *need* policing.

Indeed, what exactly makes people think it is OK to play tablets etc out loud?

It is a breach of the Railway Byelaws to do so to the annoyance of others (and it's near inevitable that it *will* annoy someone). There need to be some prominent prosecutions to make it clear this is not acceptable at all.

Get headphones.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,182
Location
Fenny Stratford
Well, I would like people to have manners and to obey social norms. Because different people have different ideas on what is acceptable behaviour in public places, it is a good idea to know some specific boundaries and guidelines to follow that are not considered offensive to most people. Although not everything you do will please everybody, it is a good idea to not offend the majority of those around you.

It's really not difficult is it - don't bellow at your companions, don't put your feet on the seats, don't spread your belongings over several seats, don't smoke, don't molest others, etc. We all know what the boundaries are with a fair degree of similarity. This applies in any class - first is no different to standard in this regard. Most people who have any degree of social aptitude know roughly where the boundaries are.

No need to designate one person as arbiter (and that is a straw man argument anyway). All that is necessary is to advocate behaviour that doesn't unnecessarily impose costs or unpleasentness on other people, i.e. treat others as you would like to be treated yourself, basic consideration for other people, recognition that public places are not an extension of your house and therefore you can't just do as you please and stuff others. This is all basic social etiquette that your parents should have taught you, and is essential in our ever crowded societies to ensure we all get along and have functioning societies.

Whilst I am sure none of you will have ever done anything to annoy other people I am not sure I am that perfect. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

OBVIOUSLY gross behvaiour should be challenged but often threads like this merely highlight the British middle class snob angered that someone common looking dared to talk in their presence or that they were subjected to some minor inconvenience that is part and parcel of using (and there is a clue here) public transport.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top