At least Leeds has a screen listing all (?) destinations alphabetically just by the gateline (and on the concourse?)
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Trains advertised short of final destination e.g. to 'Ealing Broadway'
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At least Leeds has a screen listing all (?) destinations alphabetically just by the gateline (and on the concourse?)
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A better, non-railway-centric view would be to use via. Something. Maybe via. Kington and Llanelli, or Swansea, or something along those lines.
I like the "then Final Destination" idea, too.
There are arguements for and against this practice. When I commuted from Shenfield in the late 70s the indicators showed the complete route but the PA announced the stoppers as "Maryland" and the semi fasts as "Stratford" as the semis overtook the stoppers and the fasts overtook both.
A few years later I had the embarassment of a member of my team rolling up for a job in Slough seriously late because he had looked for final destinations and jumped on the stopper terminating at Slough rather than the HST, first stop Slough, that I had told him to catch.
A few years later I had the embarassment of a member of my team rolling up for a job in Slough seriously late because he had looked for final destinations and jumped on the stopper terminating at Slough rather than the HST, first stop Slough, that I had told him to catch.
Manchester Piccadilly has something similar.
My view is that Birmingham New Street would very much benefit from having one installed as well. It can be a right pain trying to locate intermediate stations on the current departure boards, especially when they shift along just as the list of stops is about to tick over to 'page 2 of 2'.
JBuchananGB
Member
Never heard of Poppleton, did not know it was anywhere near Harrogate, which it isn't. Journey planner told me xx.29 to York. Alighted train from London, didn't go anywhere near gate line. Said to my wife, we need xx.29 to York. Looked at board. No sign of any such train. No mention of Harrogate. Fortunately only one xx.29 departure, so went over to advertised platform, where I found a train to York!
Result.
Maybe Poppleton then York would have helped. Is Poppleton a more important place than Harrogate? I still think York via Harrogate would have been better.
I realise this a different debate than the fast vs. slow trains along same route, such as London - MK, or Watford or Oxford. I wonder how many people board TfL at Liverpool Street for Shenfield? Should they be advertised as Brentwood?
The 0914 morning service from Crewe to Swansea is advertised in a similar fashion, although referring to the Heart of Wales line is not particularly helpful. I overheard a rather unhappy couple a few weeks ago who had caught the 0914 to Swansea, when they would have been better served on the 0908 via Swansea. Quite the little argument!
If it were up to me, the Heart of Wales services would be advertised something like this:
Or:
There might also be an argument for adding a second line to the Marches line services, such as:
And blankets: it was ruddy freezing the other day!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
What's even funnier is sometimes they have catering! Catering on a single 153!!
I know - I used to do it! Park the trolley at the big end and wander up and down folornly until Cardiff.
But the point is that the way it's set up will stop you getting the slow train! It's to get you to wait for a later service that arrives sooner.
What we both meant was that if you end up getting the slower train because you see that it also stops where you want to go (or perhaps use a planner that doesn't make the distinction) then you'll get there, so it's not as if you'll go to the wrong place or find the train stops short and what do you do then?
For Joe Public, the system of 'lying' is beneficial. Those in the know, who may have other reasons for wanting to take a slower train, will know or be able to check.
Now I guess there may be times where due to an event or just a high flow of people, you might want to be told about a slower service that may be more comfortable to travel on. Let's say a fast service from King's Cross to Cambridge is cancelled, and the system doesn't mean another service is now advertised as going to Cambridge. You now have people waiting for the next fast, which is trying to transport twice the number of people, and you may prefer to have a seat and wait.
That's nothing that can't be solved by manual announcements and staff on the ground giving advice.
Saying 'then on to' might be better than that, as it shows you'll still get there - but there's an implication that there might be a delay, which could put you off and make you look for another service.
Yes, I am very well aware of that, but how many people bound for Oxford fancy trying to fight their way on board a semi-fast rammed full of commuters bound for stops on the way to Reading - not many. You may be the exception but since you know GWR is 'lying' about the final destination, what are you worrying about?
You were the one that brought the German way of doing things into it - if it's so great, then why hasn't it been imported, whatever the management structure of DB and Arriva?
So basically you are not interested in hearing any explanation of why the system of using the penultimate stop on departure boards was instituted on this route - it helps passengers, many of whom may not be familiar with which little screen at Paddington to look at, or Paddington station full stop, or which train they should be on to get back to London quickly.
Solution to what? You seem to think there is a problem to be solved. There isn't.
Seriously, who on earth would willingly catch a stopper between Oxford and Paddington? Hands up...
The system has worked perfectly well between Oxford and Paddington for a long time - it has achieved the main objective of helping passengers, whether they are British or overseas visitors, get on the fast trains from Paddington to Oxford and vice versa without people needing to ask staff at the stations, or adding yet more screens on the Paddington concourse.
Times of disruption are a different matter - and even then it may well be quicker to get an HST heading further west out as far as Reading or Didcot, then pick up a previous semi-fast to Oxford (or an XC from Reading), or do the reverse - which is just the kind of thing staff at Paddington or Oxford tell people to do. Not forgetting that when things go pear-shaped, the semi-fasts are even more likely to become mobile sardine tins east of Reading.
fairysdad
Member
Here's a thought: how about putting the timetabled destination arrival time on the boards? Then people who are looking at the boards can see that the xx:20 service arrives at x1:20, but the xx:30 service at x1:00 and is thus slower?
Back pre-2008 when through London Midland (previously Central Trains/Silverlink) workings via Northampton were few and far between, the screens at Coventry (say) for a while advertised the services as terminating at Northampton, but then with a scrolling message on the bottom line saying "train continues to London Euston". Stopped people turning up for a Pendolino then accidentally getting on an LM service instead.
This was before the big push by LM on their 'LM only' fares, so wouldn't work today.
Having said that, from observation, it doesn't seem very common for Virgin passengers to accidentally get on LM instead. Probably helped by many VT passengers being on Advance fares (so with a specific train), and most people being able to identify a Virgin train when they see one (does say alot for the strength of their brand!)
So say at Paddington someone unfamiliar is waiting for a train to say Southall, and the train is announced on the main concourse, described as a Twyford service. They walk all the way to platform 14, and see a train sitting there which the destination blind says Reading on. Oh no, they think, I must be on the wrong platform - that can't be my train as my train is for Twyford. So they walk all the way back to the main concourse to check/ask someone, by now they miss the train.
It's a silly way of doing it
It's a silly way of doing it
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
A few VT stations have this (Euston and Kings Cross, certainly). I would expect to see it spread over time.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The reasoning for that was different, in that the trains were not timetabled to run through by the public timetable (so the destination was technically correct), but many *did* run through for operational convenience, and adding that note stopped people[1] getting annoyed when they got up to get off at Northampton only to find they had to get back on the same train, possibly losing their preferred seat.
[1] There had long been Silverlink only, SS/CT only, then LM only fares, so people did legitimately want to.
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hairyhandedfool
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In my opinion, the number of people who would be 'caught out' by that is less than those who would benefit from it. In my experience, very few people actually pay attention to what the train has written on the front/back/side. There are times when the xx04 Northern service to Crewe and the xx07 XC service to Bristol share a platform at Manchester Piccadilly, and where that happens, the XC crew always make an announcement for those who think they are on the Northern service.
Guards on Northern services in Yorkshire have noted that quite a few people, travelling on Advance tickets, have missed their booked EMT trains because they got the Northern train to Sheffield, instead of the XC or TPE services that go beyond Sheffield, because the destination board said it was going to Sheffield and it was about the right departure time, and/or the train leaving at the time they had on their reservation card was going somewhere else (e.g. Bristol, Reading, Manchester Airport, etc).
MarlowDonkey
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Just to add to the mixture, I wonder how it's going to work when CrossRail trains start running. Perhaps they won't even be shown on the main Paddington board. By definition these will be slow to Reading and it may well pay those in the know to change at Paddington for a faster service. At Reading, presumably they would have to be advertised as "Elizabeth Line" unless they continue with the Ealing Broadway or Acton Main Line destinations. It remains to be seen whether for stations between Reading and Paddington, it will be better for destinations beyond Paddington to catch a GWR semi-fast when available, or crawl in station by station on the Crossrail service.
matt_world2004
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There will be some tickets valid on the elizabeth line (Freedom passes before 9:30 and between west drayton and readaing) that are not valid on gwr so they will probably will show the final destination
I think this Laurel and Hardy sketch sums up ticket purchasing on the railways in this country perfectly.
https://youtu.be/qpDzNQNPzG0
TheDavibob
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The same problem crops up with Cambridge (and probably Peterborough to a lesser extent) when Thameslink opens. How is it done at (eg.) Brighton at the moment? Can't see any indication than they would advertise anything other than final destination, else it would get really confusing.
MichaelAMW
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When I was a lad back home, to help with this very problem, the trains to Aylesbury via High Wycombe used to have "Little Kimble" on the rear destination blind and "Aylesbury" on the front one, so that nobody at Marylebone would be confused but the front of the train had the correct destination as it was running in to the stations en route. Such simple solutions may actually be harder with electronic displays, if they automatically put the same place on the front and the back.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
If you stick to journey times the HOW could be advertised as running to Bynea. All other locations would be reached quicker via Marches route.
WelshBluebird
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I don't see why the services could not just be advertised as the same destination but specifically with the mention of "stopping" and "non stopping express".
Envy123
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I recall seeing a "Next fastest train to" board, listing all destinations alphabetically. Don't remember what station it was - Vauxhall or Waterloo East.
That would be more useful if more stations had it.
CaptainHaddock
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On weekdays there are two fast trains from Leeds to Sheffield both leaving at 16.40, one Northern, one XC. On the information boards the Northern One is shown with the destination Meadowhall and the XC one with its actual destination of Reading.
So the inexperienced traveller wishing to get to Sheffield will in all probability just look on the board for a train with a destination of Sheffield and unwittingly get on either the Dearne or Barnsley stopper which will take much longer and will be far less convenient for them!
So the inexperienced traveller wishing to get to Sheffield will in all probability just look on the board for a train with a destination of Sheffield and unwittingly get on either the Dearne or Barnsley stopper which will take much longer and will be far less convenient for them!
cholsey-choose
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I can imagine that few people look at the front of the train (especially when doing the "peasants dash" at Paddington), nevertheless getting on a train and hearing the electronic voice announce a different destination is quite jarring.
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