VTWC Coach K single seats

rebmcr · 13 Mar 2017

I've seen something similar start to happen in seats C01 and C02 -- the only single seats in Standard.

They're adjacent to the guard's office & the shop, and allow a lone traveller to access a power socket without sitting next to a stranger. They are very popular and sought-after, and over the years I have been able to enjoy them many times. Recently however, there always seem to be distinctive red jackets draped over them.

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Bletchleyite · 13 Mar 2017

rebmcr said:
I've seen something similar start to happen in seats C01 and C02 -- the only single seats in Standard.

They're adjacent to the guard's office & the shop, and allow a lone traveller to access a power socket without sitting next to a stranger. They are very popular and sought-after, and over the years I have been able to enjoy them many times. Recently however, there always seem to be distinctive red jackets draped over them.

Yes, this isn't on either. Are those seats reservable? That (using the seat selector) would be a way to prevent such trouble

I have wondered, for what it's worth, if the railway should follow some TGVs and be a bit more innovative with Standard seating, having some areas of 3+1 as well as the regular 2+2. I do know the bays of 6 on LM are very popular with families and groups, and unlike 3+2 the seats would be wide enough for this.

All Line Rover · 13 Mar 2017

C01 and C02 are marked as reserved (when the seat reservation displays work properly) and it is VTWC's policy of keeping those seats available for vulnerable passengers who are best off sat nearest the guard's office and with minimal obstruction from fellow passengers.

Bletchleyite · 13 Mar 2017

Ah, that probably makes some sense.

rebmcr · 13 Mar 2017

All Line Rover said:
C01 and C02 are marked as reserved (when the seat reservation displays work properly) and it is VTWC's policy of keeping those seats available for vulnerable passengers who are best off sat nearest the guard's office and with minimal obstruction from fellow passengers.

Fair enough, they were reservable when I used to use them, that must have been the cause of the change I noticed.

Keeping them untaken using the jackets is actually a good thing in that case.

AlterEgo · 13 Mar 2017

All Line Rover said:
C01 and C02 are marked as reserved (when the seat reservation displays work properly) and it is VTWC's policy of keeping those seats available for vulnerable passengers who are best off sat nearest the guard's office and with minimal obstruction from fellow passengers.

Is this new? Only I used to be able to reserve those seats a couple of years back.

All Line Rover · 13 Mar 2017

Changed a few years ago. There was a press release about it at the time explaining various improvements which had been made for vulnerable (e.g. very elderly) passengers.

jon0844 · 13 Mar 2017

All Line Rover said:
Changed a few years ago. There was a press release about it at the time explaining various improvements which had been made for vulnerable (e.g. very elderly) passengers.

And mums to be, who it seems can be upgraded if these seats are occupied (but must be registered).

markydh · 13 Mar 2017

Neil Williams said:
That would be an ideal, but the risk of a group of 2 or 3 joining me at it is too high in 1st. To me the guarantee of a single seat is a good reason to upgrade.

Not between Carlisle and Lancaster which is my usual journey. It's almost never full.

Bletchleyite · 13 Mar 2017

markydh said:
Not between Carlisle and Lancaster which is my usual journey. It's almost never full.

The north end of the WCML is typically quieter. Travel from London and it's very different.

For example, for my journey on Saturday morning, MKC to Lancaster, all but one table in coaches H and J had at least one person reserved into them. For much of the journey, most seats were occupied.

ag51ruk · 13 Mar 2017

Neil Williams said:
The problem (to me the only real problem) is that they select the single seats which passengers like to sit in and there are only 4 such seats per train.

They should select less popular seats, such as the two rows of 2 airline seats which are also next to their work station and are not popular with passengers.

There are 5 other single seats in First on an 11 coach Pendolino - J 14 and G/H 2 and 24.

Bletchleyite · 13 Mar 2017

Shall bear that in mind, though G/H 2 is I believe against a blank wall.

Staff still shouldn't be blocking popular seats for their own occasional use. (They aren't even sitting in them most of the time!)

ag51ruk · 13 Mar 2017

Neil Williams said:
Shall bear that in mind, though G/H 2 is I believe against a blank wall.

Staff still shouldn't be blocking popular seats for their own occasional use. (They aren't even sitting in them most of the time!)

Those seats face into the coach.(so back of another seat in front of you) - you even get a moveable footrest. Either of those two seats are the most private on the train

All Line Rover · 13 Mar 2017

J14 and H24 are amongst the first seats to be reserved by VTWC's default seat reservation system, meaning they will not be available on the day and are unlikely to be available to reserve even if booking weeks in advance.

That leaves just H02 (which is unlikely to be reserved except on trains which are almost fully reserved in first class, or where a passenger has specifically requested a reservation in H02), and G02 / G24 on 11 car Pendolinos only.

47271 · 13 Mar 2017

ag51ruk said:
Those seats face into the coach.(so back of another seat in front of you) - you even get a moveable footrest. Either of those two seats are the most private on the train

Indeed, here is photographic evidence of G24 gathered on an 11 car Pendo this very evening!

You get the added benefit of the servery bulkhead behind you, so noone looking over your shoulder. Nice and smooth mid coach and no panto din into the bargain.

Needless to say I'm sat in a table of four with one other person in the coach!

RAPC · 13 Mar 2017

Was on a train this morning back from London to Preston and the back row of coach K had red reservation style tickets applied to the top of them. I didn't get close enough to read them word for word, but effectively they said 'these seats are reserved for crew use' and were fully VT branded. Suggests that the seats being held back for staff is officially sanctioned.

First time I have seen these, despite travelling most weeks in coach K. It did make me think of this thread though, so I thought I would pass it on.

Bletchleyite · 13 Mar 2017

RAPC said:
Was on a train this morning back from London to Preston and the back row of coach K had red reservation style tickets applied to the top of them. I didn't get close enough to read them word for word, but effectively they said 'these seats are reserved for crew use' and were fully VT branded. Suggests that the seats being held back for staff is officially sanctioned.

I think those red tickets are emergency reservation tickets which are placed if the screens fail. Quite possible they were being misused. If correct, that should be reported.

It's worth noting that it isn't just the back row of coach K that some crews try to reserve. I've been asked to leave the third row forward before. It's a good job (for VT) that this has only happened when I've already been on a 1st ticket, as if it had been for Weekend First purposes I'd have moved all right...to Standard, stopping to explain to the guard on the way precisely why he would not be taking £25 on this occasion.

boxy321 · 14 Mar 2017

I like coach K.

Less Hoorah Henries babbling their way from London to Brum in the morning, and typically occupied with season ticket holders going to work peacefully.

I'd rather listen to the staff banter than the luvvies describing their weekend or the serial typists knocking out Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor on their keyboards. No need to worry about reserved seats either.

I often end up in seat 9 or 12 (single airline) in the evening with the 4 or so other passengers on board coach K. Most people are very aware that the back of the bus is a no go, rightly or wrongly.

I often end up sharing a 4-seat table in the morning further up, only ever having to sit next to somebody once a fortnight if I get the 9-coach early service from London. Head in paper, get previous occupant's breakfast rubbish out of the way, and allow the caffeine to hit. No real problems here.

sheff1 · 14 Mar 2017

AlterEgo said:
This kind of thing has been a problem for years. We used to get quite a few complaints about this when I worked for VT, 2011-13.

Not surprised it still goes on. It is completely unacceptable.

Virgin management obviously do not think it is completely unacceptable. If they did, they would have done something about it long ago. Typical of the company.

AJG3 · 14 Mar 2017

Dear Neil,

you have my utmost sympathy; I've been there too, albeit with a slight variation on a theme.

Around five years ago I was travelling from Carlisle to Euston, on a 9 car Pendolino, in coach G, when it was 1st class. As was commonplace then, G was declassified en route. I preferred to stay in G (I had already been fed and watered, so just having the antimacassar removed wasn't a great deprivation), but was told in no uncertain terms that I couldn't. I reluctantly trudged up to K, sat down, only to be told a little later that that particular seat was for staff. I refused to budge as all other seats in K were by now occupied and I had already been requested to move from G. I told the staff member to get the train manager down to K to resolve it; no response from her, just went off in a huff.

Andrew

Bletchleyite · 14 Mar 2017

Two lots of rubbish...First Class tickets are valid for travel in Standard.

I despair.

Lad Brookes · 29 Apr 2017

10:07 Euston to Lime Street is the last service that goes the usual route today (later services are extensions of the xx:00 Euston to Piccadilly services, so take about an hour longer). Needless to say, it's pretty rammed.

I've just boarded at Stafford, and walked the full length of First Class, looking for two seats together. Get to the back of Coach K, and finally find what we are looking for- seats 1 & 2 are free- apart from an unattended bag with the Virgin logo in seat 2. Lovely.

(Thankfully there was one more set of 2 free, along with 3 out of 4 of Neil Williams's favourite single seats. But still, not impressed- pretty predictable that this train would be busy, it's not some late night graveyard train!)

Mag_seven · 29 Apr 2017

Lad Brookes said:
10:07 Euston to Lime Street is the last service that goes the usual route today (later services are extensions of the xx:00 Euston to Piccadilly services, so take about an hour longer). Needless to say, it's pretty rammed.

I've just boarded at Stafford, and walked the full length of First Class, looking for two seats together. Get to the back of Coach K, and finally find what we are looking for- seats 1 & 2 are free- apart from an unattended bag with the Virgin logo in seat 2. Lovely.

(Thankfully there was one more set of 2 free, along with 3 out of 4 of Neil Williams's favourite single seats. But still, not impressed- pretty predictable that this train would be busy, it's not some late night graveyard train!)

Not acceptable - staff on passes are expected to give up their seats in the event of overcrowding so therefore should staff working on the train.

AlterEgo · 29 Apr 2017

Mag_seven said:
Not acceptable - staff on passes are expected to give up their seats in the event of overcrowding so therefore should staff working on the train.

The bag probably belonged to an on duty staff member rather than someone travelling on a pass. Still not right though.

Mag_seven · 29 Apr 2017

AlterEgo said:
The bag probably belonged to an on duty staff member rather than someone travelling on a pass. Still not right though.

On duty staff should keep ALL seats free for fare paying passengers - irrespective of how busy the train is.

Taunton · 29 Apr 2017

Alan Williams wrote in Modern Railways some years ago that on the 17.30 from Edinburgh to Glasgow, always crowded, Scotrail management staff on first class passes going home let themselves in through the guards door and occupied the best forward-facing window seats of the small amount of first class seats before the doors were opened for him and other passengers. Perhaps some may recall reading this.

Apparently in the days that followed publication there was an absolute prohibition from doing this which came from the top of Scotrail.

Mag_seven · 10 May 2017

Was on a busy northbound VTWC Voyager yesterday - the rear most 1st class single seat (Seat 4) had a bag on it with a red jacket hanging up on the coat hook.....

CentralTrainer · 11 May 2017

Mag_seven said:
Was on a busy northbound VTWC Voyager yesterday - the rear most 1st class single seat (Seat 4) had a bag on it with a red jacket hanging up on the coat hook.....

Did you report this to VTWC - especially as you've mentioned it was busy?

Bletchleyite · 11 May 2017

On a Voyager that really is unacceptable due to the low provision of 1st. Indeed, were it a weekend that could actually cost VTWC between £15 and £25 in non-sold Weekend First, thus should be considered equivalent to the theft of food from the buffet.

Yes, please do report this.

Scotrail84 · 11 May 2017

Neil Williams said:
Good lord, that's bare-faced cheek.

People really should report this every time it happens. Telling lies is even worse than what I saw. Only takes a few seconds via Twitter, but I also put a more formal report in with some more detail of which train it was etc via the contact form.

It needs to stop. All First Class seats should be available to passengers with First Class tickets unless there is a genuine safety issue (e.g. failed lighting, all passenger doors locked out etc), and only the Guard should be telling people they cannot occupy specific seats for that reason. Not catering staff, whose only job is to serve food and drink to passengers, not anything else. They certainly have no train management role.

Give it a rest will you, all you've done is bleat on about how you pay full first class fares, I'm willing to bet you get good advance purchases as well. A lot of people on this thread must be really important as all of a sudden they've become experts on job roles of on train staff.

Actively wanting staff disciplined and possibly sacked.... Ive heard it all now.

VTWC Coach K single seats

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