LU Drivers - Best lines/depots to work for/at?

Mattyblob · 30 Apr 2017

Hi everybody, long time lurker but first time poster!

I'm one of the many currently going through the application process for Night Tube (long term interest in train driving, have previously passed all OPC assessments but failed the DMI for my local TOC) and I've got some questions for any current/ex LU drivers that would be willing to advise as I can't find any info of this nature online.

As the title says, are there lines/stock that are better to work than others? Are there any significant differences between depots? Are certain lines better in terms of temperature in the cab whilst driving (sub-surface, air con, cooling facilities on certain stock)?

I understand that the Pic is the only night tube line that doesn't currently use ATO, is it worth going for this and enjoying the experience as much as possible before ATO becomes standard across the network? (2022 on the Pic IIRC).

Of course I've not yet had any outcome regarding my application but I'm certainly hoping I'll get to make use of this information, and if not I'm sure others may find it of interest!

Thank you in advance for any responses

RailUK Forums

Lrd · 30 Apr 2017

You don't get a choice at first. You will be allocated a depot based on the needs of the company. You will then be able to nominate a depot but will have to wait for a vacancy (and do a minimum one year of Night Tube) before being called.

Each line is very different and has pros and cons which will be different for each driver. Different people like different things. Worry about getting in first and then do your research about each line, which you will get from other drivers and staff you meet etc.

Mojo · 30 Apr 2017

Mattyblob said:
I understand that the Pic is the only night tube line that doesn't currently use ATO, is it worth going for this and enjoying the experience as much as possible before ATO becomes standard across the network? (2022 on the Pic IIRC).

Won't be any time near that; the trains won't even arrive by then, so signalling upgrades will take years after.

As a Night Tube T/Op your shifts will be pretty much the same wherever you go. If you want to apply to go full time then it depends what you want in terms of duty start/finish times asto what depot is better.

Bromley boy · 30 Apr 2017

Mattyblob said:
Hi everybody, long time lurker but first time poster!

I'm one of the many currently going through the application process for Night Tube (long term interest in train driving, have previously passed all OPC assessments but failed the DMI for my local TOC) and I've got some questions for any current/ex LU drivers that would be willing to advise as I can't find any info of this nature online.

As the title says, are there lines/stock that are better to work than others? Are there any significant differences between depots? Are certain lines better in terms of temperature in the cab whilst driving (sub-surface, air con, cooling facilities on certain stock)?

I understand that the Pic is the only night tube line that doesn't currently use ATO, is it worth going for this and enjoying the experience as much as possible before ATO becomes standard across the network? (2022 on the Pic IIRC).

Of course I've not yet had any outcome regarding my application but I'm certainly hoping I'll get to make use of this information, and if not I'm sure others may find it of interest!

Thank you in advance for any responses

From a recent thread on here, it seems that drivers can drive manually on ATO lines, certainly the Northern and Central, if they so wish.

donpoku · 30 Apr 2017

Bromley boy said:
From a recent thread on here, it seems that drivers can drive manually on ATO lines, certainly the Northern and Central, if they so wish.

That cannot be the case due to time consistency and safety implications of the signaling system.

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Met Driver · 30 Apr 2017

donpoku said:
That cannot be the case due to time consistency and safety implications of the signaling system.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

You're mistaken in that belief. Manual driving (which is supported by cab signalling and ATP) is mandatory on Sundays and bank holidays on specified sections of the ATC lines (Victoria excepted), and permissible under certain circumstances at all other times of the week/all parts of the lines concerned.

Mattyblob · 30 Apr 2017

Thanks for your replies. Is there opportunity to drive manually on Jubilee too at certain times/situations then? Thought the platform edge doors would prohibit it!

Mojo · 30 Apr 2017

Mattyblob said:
Thanks for your replies. Is there opportunity to drive manually on Jubilee too at certain times/situations then? Thought the platform edge doors would prohibit it!

The Jubilee line extension (along with the rest of the line) was manually driven from its opening in 1999 for around a decade until the new signalling system was fully functional over a decade later.

bILLOO · 1 May 2017

Which parts of each ATO line are favoured for Sunday manual driving?

Lrd · 1 May 2017

bILLOO said:
Which parts of each ATO line are favoured for Sunday manual driving?

Central Line is East of Leytonstone and West of White City

slidingdoors · 1 May 2017

Lrd said:
Central Line is East of Leytonstone and West of White City

Does that apply on the night tube too? Presumably it's done so operators can 'keep their eye in' so to speak? When do the night tubers get this chance?

up1989 · 1 May 2017

slidingdoors said:
Does that apply on the night tube too? Presumably it's done so operators can 'keep their eye in' so to speak? When do the night tubers get this chance?

on night tube, northern you can drive in manual when ever you like, you get a call from the signaller if your running late to switch back to ato.

After some practise you can drive better than the ato as you learn the road and the speed restrictions. Ato is rather jerky on the Seltrac system as it doesn't use all of the motoring arc.

Lrd · 1 May 2017

slidingdoors said:
Does that apply on the night tube too? Presumably it's done so operators can 'keep their eye in' so to speak? When do the night tubers get this chance?

Yeah it is, it's done after 2am on Sat night/Sunday morning

Met Driver · 1 May 2017

Lrd said:
bILLOO said:

Which parts of each ATO line are favoured for Sunday manual driving?

Click to expand...

Central Line is East of Leytonstone and West of White City

The rest:

Jubilee, Wembley Park - Stanmore.
Northern, West Finchley - High Barnet & Hendon Central - Edgware.

bramling · 1 May 2017

donpoku said:
That cannot be the case due to time consistency and safety implications of the signaling system.

Yes you basically can drive manually whenever you like. The system provides full safety protection, but the flip side of the coin is you have to be able to drive to ATO levels of performance - both in terms of maintaining time and not having errors. Some individuals are better at this than others, but providing one is not flagging up in either of these areas then they will generally be left alone to do their own thing. The one exception is the Victoria Line, which is partly historical as the line has been ATO from day one, and partly due to the sheer intensity of the service.

bramling · 1 May 2017

Met Driver said:
The rest:

Jubilee, Wembley Park - Stanmore.
Northern, West Finchley - High Barnet & Hendon Central - Edgware.

The Northern has changed, I can't remember exactly what it is, but due to some issues with trains stopping in fractionally the wrong place, it was changed so that it no longer included Edgware. It's something like Hendon Central to Hampstead now - on the rare occasions ANP is actually implemented nowadays.

Met Driver · 1 May 2017

bramling said:
The Northern has changed, I can't remember exactly what it is, but due to some issues with trains stopping in fractionally the wrong place, it was changed so that it no longer included Edgware. It's something like Hendon Central to Hampstead now - on the rare occasions ANP is actually implemented nowadays.

They'd better update the line supplement then.

Met Driver · 1 May 2017

bramling said:
The one exception is the Victoria Line, which is partly historical as the line has been ATO from day one, and partly due to the sheer intensity of the service.

It's also not possible to replicate ATO performance as a much gentler braking curve is enforced by the ATP when driving in PM, so it's impossible to hit platforms in the same manner as ATO, for example. This is not the case on the other ATC lines.

GW43125 · 1 May 2017

Met Driver said:
It's also not possible to replicate ATO performance as a much gentler braking curve is enforced by the ATP when driving in PM, so it's impossible to hit platforms in the same manner as ATO, for example. This is not the case on the other ATC lines.

Doesn't PM also restrict max speed?

bramling · 1 May 2017

Met Driver said:
It's also not possible to replicate ATO performance as a much gentler braking curve is enforced by the ATP when driving in PM, so it's impossible to hit platforms in the same manner as ATO, for example. This is not the case on the other ATC lines.

Hmm. Up until the recent software change this was undoubtedly the case. Now I'm not so sure... I'd like to know a bit more about exactly what changes have been made to the software, but so far the line seems a lot slower.

bramling · 1 May 2017

GW43125 said:
Doesn't PM also restrict max speed?

Not on the Central, Jubilee or Northern Lines - the system allows the driver access to exactly the same speed profile as the ATO uses.

(In fact, on the Central Line it's technically possible to achieve 100 kph in Coded Manual whereas the ATO will not exceed 85 kph, although exceeding 85 kph in CM is prohibited by a rule instruction. This anomaly has been present ever since the 85 kph restriction was brought in after Chancery Lane).

Met Driver · 1 May 2017

bramling said:
GW43125 said:

Doesn't PM also restrict max speed?

Click to expand...

Not on the Central, Jubilee or Northern Lines - the system allows the driver access to exactly the same speed profile as the ATO uses.

Nor on the Victoria line, except under certain train-borne fault conditions, in which case ATP enforces a lower maximum speed (known as limited protected manual).

bramling · 1 May 2017

Met Driver said:
Nor on the Victoria line, except under certain train-borne fault conditions, in which case ATP enforces a lower maximum speed (known as limited protected manual).

How does it work in PM on the Vic approaching a platform or red signal? I'm presuming that, like TBTC, the maximum allowable speed drops in the form of a braking curve. One lovely feature of the Central Line is there generally isn't a braking curve as such - only the maximum speed dropping in steps at some locations - thus generally allowing the driver to enter a platform at whatever speed they desire within reason. The Northern is okay where tunnel braking rate applies as this is generally in line with hitting a platform at 35-40 mph, however in the open sections it's rather painful being forced to enter a platform at half the speed compared to when driving under signals!

Met Driver · 1 May 2017

bramling said:
How does it work in PM on the Vic approaching a platform or red signal? I'm presuming that, like TBTC, the maximum allowable speed drops in the form of a braking curve. One lovely feature of the Central Line is there generally isn't a braking curve as such - only the maximum speed dropping in steps at some locations - thus generally allowing the driver to enter a platform at whatever speed they desire within reason. The Northern is okay where tunnel braking rate applies as this is generally in line with hitting a platform at 35-40 mph, however in the open sections it's rather painful being forced to enter a platform at half the speed compared to when driving under signals!

Basically no different to TBTC except the PDP (Vic speak for TOD) displays things slightly differently (ironically, pretty much identical to 4LM CBTC). However, unlike TBTC, for a signal stop between stations there is always a wayside reference point to aim for, be it a block marker or colour light signal, in addition to the information on the PDP. In some ways, it's a combination of the Central line system and TBTC.

There are a fair few stations on the Central where, subject to the starter being clear, ATP doesn't demand a speed reduction through the platform.

bramling · 1 May 2017

Met Driver said:
Basically no different to TBTC except the PDP (Vic speak for TOD) displays things slightly differently (ironically, pretty much identical to 4LM CBTC). However, unlike TBTC, for a signal stop between stations there is always a wayside reference point to aim for, be it a block marker or colour light signal, in addition to the information on the PDP. In some ways, it's a combination of the Central line system and TBTC.

There are a fair few stations on the Central where, subject to the starter being clear, ATP doesn't demand a speed reduction through the platform.

Yes I've never understood why the Victoria Line has a timing section on the station starting signals when the speed is already supervised by the system.

So on the Vic are you saying the hand comes down very early when approaching a platform in PM compared to ATO? At least with TBTC it is the same, for all it's other faults. The Vic seems to have been ruined since the new software went in- painfully slow now.

DJ737 · 1 May 2017

Back in the day I used to drive in coded manual on sunday mornings with the 67 stock and using the Westinghouse at all stations from Walthamstow to Brixton and back.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

Met Driver · 2 May 2017

bramling said:
So on the Vic are you saying the hand comes down very early when approaching a platform in PM compared to ATO?

Correct

Bromley boy · 2 May 2017

To the LU drivers who've switched from ATO to manual lines, or vice versa, which do you prefer?

Does the ATO driving become monotonous, or do you prefer it?

This is hopefully still relevant to the OP's original question.

Mattyblob · 3 May 2017

Bromley boy said:
To the LU drivers who've switched from ATO to manual lines, or vice versa, which do you prefer?

Does the ATO driving become monotonous, or do you prefer it?

This is hopefully still relevant to the OP's original question.

Yeah I'd like to know people's thoughts in this too if I'm honest!

Thank you for your replies so far everyone, very informative

Webby · 4 May 2017

Does any body know if there is parking available for drivers at any of the depots?

LU Drivers - Best lines/depots to work for/at?

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