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Macclesfield station photo ban

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a4pacific

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I was seeing my daughter off to London yesterday and thought since it was a nice day took my camera and tried to photograph some trains. I was rudely told off by the station staff that they have banned photograph in the station.

I have never heard of it and it will be a shame for everyone concern if this is true.

Has anybody else have encountered this problem?

I come across this webpage http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.html
and it doesn't seem to be any problem with photography. BTW Macclesfield is run by Virgin, do you think they have a complete different set of rules?
 
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Ferret

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Yet again a case of platform staff making it up as they go along. There is no ban at Macclesfield or anywhere else for that matter. Send a letter/e-mail of complaint to Virgin and request that they educate the staff there...
 

Ferret

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Martyn29, as nice as that is, I'd also want them to mention to the staff involved that photography is not banned.... I guess an apology from customer relations is par for the course really!
 

richa2002

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I have contacted Manchester Evening News who will report on this story in the next few days, if any of you in the Manchester Area, watch out for it.
Nice one! It's important these fools are exposed.
 

metrocammel

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Interesting, yet not surprising front page piece from the Manchester Evening News.
-There's also a video of the event at Macclesfield station. Most definitely shows the woman up. Apparently, we aren't allowed to ask for permission to take photographs- as for Virgin's weak excuse "the man was abusive", justifying her actions, the mind boggles - if that's 'abusive', I wonder what they call the troubles they have on Friday & Saturday nights!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1103369_train_spotter_terror_row#bcplayer

A TRAINSPOTTER was ordered to stop taking pictures on a station platform because he might pose a `security risk.'

Edmund Tan, a retired chartered accountant, was approached by a Virgin Trains worker at Macclesfield. She demanded he put his cameras away.

The company says there is a ban on anyone taking pictures or filming at stations without permission because of `security concerns' - which includes fears about possible terrorist attacks. Footage shot by Mr Tan shows the confrontation, which ends with him pleading: "But I'm a trainspotter!”

Mr Tan, of London Road, Prestbury, later said: “I was amazed. In the past I have always taken photos of trains on the platform. The member of staff came over and told me to turn the camera off because I had not asked permission. She was very rude.
Abusive

“When I asked if I could have permission she said 'No'. I had asked her to be quiet because I was trying to film and she said I had been abusive.

“I have never heard anything like it. What if genuine tourists just want to take pictures of their travel – will they be rudely told off as well?

“I love trains. I have more than 200 model trains at home.”

The showdown took place at Macclesfield station last Sunday. Mr Tan dropped off his daughter Jennifer, 22, to catch a train to London just before 4pm. Her father had agreed to drop her off and take the opportunity to take pictures of trains.

A Virgin Trains spokesman confirmed that the incident was recorded on the station log.

He said: “Mr Tan was advised not to take photos at the station without permission. He was then told he could not have permission.

“These rules apply to all stations. They are private property and it is reasonable that people as a courtesy should check-in before taking photos.

Security

“It also helps ensure safety and security, both of the people taking the pictures and of the general public.”

When asked to explain what security risk might be posed by a trainspotter, the spokesman added: “There are a number of issues around security. They could include things like terrorism or the security of the station – for example, we’ve had some burglaries at Macclesfield station.”

Union bosses claimed earlier this week that a leading rail firm was planning to ban trainspotters from its stations under moves to crack down on faredodgers.

The Transport Salaried Staffs Association said its officials were told at a meeting that the ban was being planned by National Express on its east coast line. But bosses at National Express strongly denied the claim and said platform passes would be issued to trainspotters.

-END-

Reading some of the comments left, some make a good point. For example, Would a terrorist worth his salt, really start taking photographs or videoing stations / public places with a very obvious camera- if (s)he was to do it, they'd use some sort of candid / spy camera.

Secondly, someone has mentioned that if they want to do reconnaissance, they could go on Google Earth and get a good idea of the layout, without even leaving their homes.

Thirdly, if a terrorist wanted to blow a train up or whatever, all they would really need is a rough idea of the timetable, and how either leave it by the trackside in a remote location (IRA style), or when to board a train at a station like millions of other passengers do (Suicide bomber style).

No where does standing on a platform like a lemon, filming 323s come into that.

I'm sure I'll get arrested by the Thought Police now, but really I'm stating the bleeding' obvious.
 
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Ferret

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What the spokesman meant to say was "we're very sorry and it won't happen again" instead of spouting drivel about trainspotters presenting a security risk. Unusual for VT to score such a PR own goal...

Not sure spokesman has done his research either - the guidelines don't mention having to ask permission, they just ask that you make yourself known and sign in - there is a subtle difference...

Ok, I'm guessing Mr Tan didn't do this but all VT needed to say was 'we have written to Mr Tan to advise of the correct procedure' and they'd have saved a lot of face......
 

Mojo

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Gosh, the woman in that video has an annoying voice. I'd want to leave the station just to get away from her!

Interesting to see he caught her on film. I wonder how many cameras they have at Macclesfield filming us - someone with a camera could be useful if they've been having trouble - this has all been said before though!
 

GB

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That "woman" clearly needs a lesson or two on how to speak and act with memebers of the public. If she raised her hand up towards my camera like that I would not be happy!
 

175001

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Fantastic to see its got so much media attention! Glad to see that the problems you faced are being highlighted!

That woman should be doing a 9-5 desk job which has no contact with people. Her Customer Service skills are appalling, and she should lose her job, if that's how she treats anybody, either it being a paying customer, or an enthusiast. Shocking!
 

me123

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...how is that shocking? She tried to get his attention, he did not reply. Eventually, he said "shh!" to her. She advised him that he can't use his camera on the station and denied him permission.

"How dare you when I asked you to stop". She's perfectly within her right to say this. He's disregarding her instructions as a member of station staff. If she asks you to stop filming, stop filming! I'm sure by disregarding this simple request that her decision to deny permission was made considerably easier. I can understand why she would not want him on the station if he disobeys a simple request.

I'm not a staff member, but what would I have done in her situation? Approached him and asked him to stop. Explain the situation. If he asks for permission at this point, I would grant the permission provided he stopped when I asked him to. If not, he clearly does not want to comply with instructions and therefore I would deny the request at this point. I wouldn't have put my hand in front of his camera, but otherwise she did absolutely nothing wrong. Please get off her case.

If I were her, I'd also be pursuing legal channels, as I would not want images of me to be circulated on BBC news.

I'm sorry Edmund, but that's what I think. If you'd stopped filming straight away she may have been inclined to give you permission. I know that's what I would have done.
 
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me123

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I dont agree with the above post.
Good on you for publicising this !

I don't expect many people to agree with me. But I really don't care. They're my views.

I've merged the other thread into Mr. Tan's original thread just to keep things in one place.
 

Mojo

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I'm not a staff member, but what would I have done in her situation? Approached him and asked him to stop. Explain the situation. If he asks for permission at this point, I would grant the permission provided he stopped when I asked him to. If not, he clearly does not want to comply with instructions and therefore I would deny the request at this point. I wouldn't have put my hand in front of his camera, but otherwise she did absolutely nothing wrong. Please get off her case.
Why? As quoted above by 'eos,' Virgin Trains explicitly state that "railway enthusiasts are welcome at all of the stations that it manages, provided they act in a responsible manner."
 

175001

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I'm sorry Edmund, but that's what I think. If you'd stopped filming straight away she may have been inclined to give you permission in future. I know that's what I would have done.

Thank god we live in a democratic country!

But......the only way that we can prove that this is happening, is through evidence by sound or picture, like what has been published here. Words are never enough to show the country.

The BBC might have made a mistake by showing the video, it might have been better just to broadcast the sound instead, but Mr Tan has done the right thing, no doubt about it.
 

me123

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Why? As quoted above by 'eos,' Virgin Trains explicitly state that "railway enthusiasts are welcome at all of the stations that it manages, provided they act in a responsible manner."

The enthusiast guidelines also state that you are asked to seek permission. Now, I know a lot of people quibble about the exact wording of this, but I think it's a fair request.

In this situation, Mr. Tan was asked to stop filming. It was a reasonable request. He refused to comply. I'm not saying that this makes you a bad person, Mr. Tan, but you did fail to comply with an instruction from station staff. I can understand, therefore, why she refused permission to allow you to remain on the platform and I probably would have done the same myself in her situation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The BBC might have made a mistake by showing the video, it might have been better just to broadcast the sound instead, but Mr Tan has done the right thing, no doubt about it.

The sound would have been enough. But even then, I'm not too sure what the law is regarding this, hence the reason I would be seeking legal advice. However, any action would probably be directed at the BBC and the newspaper for publishing it in the first place, given the circumstances.
 

25322

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Moral of this story is boycott Macclesfield Station.

Support the local services and go to either Kidsgrove, Congelton, Prsetbury or Alderley Edge. That way vermin won't want the stationas it doesn't make any money.
 

Ferret

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Me123, the guidelines merely ask you to make yourself known by signing in - there is no requirement to seek the permission of the staff on duty at the time. But yes, it's a fair request if you're going to be present for any length of time to just nip down and sign in...
 
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87015

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Don't really think signing in (or attempting to) would have made a difference in a month of Sundays with her attitude!
 
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