Smoking ban, the impact 10 years on.

thenorthern · 31 May 2017

Looking at the date I have realised that in just over a months time it will mark 10 years since the ban on smoking in enclosed public places came in for England.

Given that for the railways it has effectively banned smoking on all railway premises it has had a bigger effect than most industries.

How would you say the impact has been and do you think in hindsight it was worth it?

From a personal perspective the smoking ban on platforms has been good as it means I don't have to have smoke blown in my face by passengers. Its widely ignored at smaller unstaffed stations but at bigger mainline stations it is strictly enforced most the time and I would say its mostly been a success.

With smoking on trains the last company to ban it was GNER in 2005 so its been banned two years longer than at stations but I think that has been positive as smoking coaches were never really very popular with non-smokers. I also don't blame Virgin Trains for introducing a smoking ban on their Pendolinos and Voyagers after they were introduced.

Its strange though 12 years ago having to know which coach was the smoking coach so I could avoid it. It also seems strange that there was such a thing as a smoking room, a smokey pub, smoking tables at restaurants and knowing which side to sit on at the cinema.

I also remember these adverts in the weeks leading up to July 1st 2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NRplIinIVU

RailUK Forums

tony_mac · 1 Jun 2017

No impact at all on the railway here! (It was already banned on trains, and is still allowed on platforms).

I still remember a long flight where I was in the last non-smoking row. There wasn't any sort of partition between the two sections and I found it rather unpleasant.

I'm glad not to put up with that sort of thing any more. While forcing your way through a crowd of smokers to get into a building can be a pain, it's still better than the alternative.

endecotp · 1 Jun 2017

For a while after the end of smoking carriages, I often found that someone would come and sit next to me who stank of cigarettes. I thought of it less as "no more smoking carriages" and more as "no more non-smokers' carriages". But luckily that problem didn't seem to last.

In the case of pubs though I still miss pub gardens, especially in rural areas. Now they are just smoking areas, with non-smokers stuck inside out of the stink even on sunny days.

bnm · 1 Jun 2017

thenorthern said:
Its widely ignored at smaller unstaffed stations

What's to ignore? If there are no 'No Smoking' signs nearby or staff to say no, then a smoker on a platform is not commiting an offence.

Railway Byelaw 3:

"No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed."

Starmill · 1 Jun 2017

How many stations lack 'no smoking' signs though? They seem reasonably ubiquitous to me.

theageofthetra · 1 Jun 2017

I was in Bergen when Norway introduced its smoking ban (2nd in Europe after Ireland I believe) & can remember locals sitting with three fags in their mouths at midnight! -the worst era was the few years after the ban when pubs in the UK smelt appalling as the old carpets had previously disguised their stench with cigarette smoke.

The weirdest smoking laws are in Japan where you have have designated outside smoking areas in the street but you can smoke in many bars.

jon0844 · 1 Jun 2017

Starmill said:
How many stations lack 'no smoking' signs though? They seem reasonably ubiquitous to me.

Knebworth station has no such signs on the platforms. And people do smoke on them.

shredder1 · 1 Jun 2017

I think its been a great thing, legalisation came into place in the Czech Republic last week apparently. It seems strange now seeing people smoking in Eastern Europe on railway stations.

jopsuk · 1 Jun 2017

The stats are showing a clear decline in the number of people smoking and a decline in the associated short term health impacts- obviously the longer term issues will take longer to show any significant effects. It's hard to pin this all on a single intervention- there's obviously been various others, such as raising the purchase age to 18, the larger warnings (and now plain packaging), the end of point-of-sale adverts and more.

Ianno87 · 1 Jun 2017

tony_mac said:
No impact at all on the railway here! (It was already banned on trains, and is still allowed on platforms).

Although the law only prohibits smoking in "substantially enclosed" public spaces, I thought eailway companies enforced a blanket ban on smoking on *all* parts of stations?

I know it's fairly commonly ignored by some, but if smokers at least have the manners to walk well away from others onto an open part of the platform, I couldn't care less.

Anyway, my point of view is that the smoking ban has been overwhelmingly a good thing. The atmosphere in pubs for starters is a considerable inprovement. And occasionally having to sit amongst the smokers in the work canteen wasn't pleasant either.

Y Ddraig Coch · 1 Jun 2017

tony_mac said:
No impact at all on the railway here! (It was already banned on trains, and is still allowed on platforms).

I still remember a long flight where I was in the last non-smoking row. There wasn't any sort of partition between the two sections and I found it rather unpleasant.

I'm glad not to put up with that sort of thing any more. While forcing your way through a crowd of smokers to get into a building can be a pain, it's still better than the alternative.

Just out of interest, where is "here"? I thought all railway property had become no smoking. If not this is interesting. Blanket bans made any "sorry mate I didn't realise I couldn't smoke here" arguments....well..... go up in smoke :roll:

chris89 · 1 Jun 2017

shredder1 said:
I think its been a great thing, legalisation came into place in the Czech Republic last week apparently. It seems strange now seeing people smoking in Eastern Europe on railway stations.

Don't think many would be happy calling those from Czech Republic, Eastern European :P

Myself prefer travelling and so on, especially after the ban came into effect. Rail wasn't always that bad (Although, remember early 2000's travelling to London etc with parents) Concerts, pubs are much more pleasant as well.

Although against the law, those who Vape are becoming more of a nuisance on trains at least, especially since they are becoming more popular.

bnm · 1 Jun 2017

chris89 said:
Although against the law, those who Vape are becoming more of a nuisance on trains at least, especially since they are becoming more popular.

Which law prohibits vaping on trains?

shredder1 · 1 Jun 2017

chris89 said:
Don't think many would be happy calling those from Czech Republic, Eastern European :P

Myself prefer travelling and so on, especially after the ban came into effect. Rail wasn't always that bad (Although, remember early 2000's travelling to London etc with parents) Concerts, pubs are much more pleasant as well.

Although against the law, those who Vape are becoming more of a nuisance on trains at least, especially since they are becoming more popular.

The Czech Republic is Central Europe?

gordonthemoron · 1 Jun 2017

about 5 years ago, I caught an overnight train from Kemi to Helsinki. There was one smoking compartment on the train which had no seats, it was choca with heavy metal fans going to a festival and pensioners

chris89 · 1 Jun 2017

bnm said:
Which law prohibits vaping on trains?

Not sure on the source but: https://vapeshoreditch.com/blog/vape-near-me-uk-and-beyond

The enclosed spaces that come with public transport were always going to be tricky ground for vapers. Hence vaping is banned on all national train systems except for Southeastern, and is also forbidden on the London underground. All airports and major UK airlines have a complete ban on vaping, although you are allowed to take your equipment on most planes. Heathrow terminal 4 now has a dedicated vaping area for those who are aching for a puff.

Edit: Not under law, so of course the ban is not enforceable. But is a ban on UK trains apart from one TOC. But really, would you want to sit in a carriage with someone puffing away with one?

shredder1 said:
The Czech Republic is Central Europe?

It is, If meant other countries was my mistake sorry.

bnm · 1 Jun 2017

A ban on trains doesn't make something a law, which is what was said.

You would only be breaking Railway Byelaws if you continued vaping after being asked by a railway employee to stop.

shredder1 · 1 Jun 2017

chris89 said:
N

It is, If meant other countries was my mistake sorry.

No, no problem Chris, I may have worded it poorly. Its interesting how once Czechoslovakia broke up, the Czech leaned to the West while the Slovaks still leaned to the East, which has slowed the latters economy down, both still have amazing rail networks though, despite many lines having closed down.

rebmcr · 1 Jun 2017

chris89 said:
But really, would you want to sit in a carriage with someone puffing away with one?

Anything that reduces tobacco is a positive in my book. We do need regulation of the e-liquid but once that is done there is no real health risk for the nearby people, since it is just steam and trace additives.

tony_mac · 1 Jun 2017

Y Ddraig Coch said:
Just out of interest, where is "here"? I thought all railway property had become no smoking.

There have been several threads on this before, but Merseyrail have never banned smoking on outside platforms.

Bletchleyite · 1 Jun 2017

rebmcr said:
Anything that reduces tobacco is a positive in my book. We do need regulation of the e-liquid but once that is done there is no real health risk for the nearby people, since it is just steam and trace additives.

It's not pleasant, though. Basic consideration is not to do it where others would be forced to breathe it.

Just like playing tablets etc out loud. Oh.

Y Ddraig Coch · 1 Jun 2017

tony_mac said:
There have been several threads on this before, but Merseyrail have never banned smoking on outside platforms.

There enforceable bylaw page on their website says differently.

https://www.merseyrail.org/about-merseyrail/revenue-protection-policy.aspx

If you go down to section 4 the Enforceable offences part it says at point 7

"Smoking or carrying any lighted item on any part of the railway"

tony_mac · 1 Jun 2017

That's just a summary of the byelaw - the full text goes on to say 'on or near which is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed'

https://www.merseyrail.org/about-merseyrail/frequently-asked-questions.aspx#smoke

Can I smoke on trains or at a station?
Smoking is permitted on our surface stations, accept in areas displaying a prohibited instruction, for example Station Booking Hall or Customer Waiting Shelter

pemma · 1 Jun 2017

Worth remembering coaches, buses, planes and ferries are all smoke free so a smoker is not going to choose one of those over the railways because of the railways being smoke free.

I briefly visited Kotor in Montenegro the other week and was informed there were public toilets on the first floor of a (very modern) shopping centre so I went in the shopping centre for the sole purpose of using the toilets and walked past the food outlets on the way and it was interesting to note not only don't they have any form of smoking ban but it also seemed like non-smokers are the minority.

Y Ddraig Coch · 1 Jun 2017

tony_mac said:
That's just a summary of the byelaw - the full text goes on to say 'on or near which is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed'

Can I smoke on trains or at a station?
Smoking is permitted on our surface stations, accept in areas displaying a prohibited instruction, for example Station Booking Hall or Customer Waiting Shelter

A slight conflict of information there!

I just saw the full by law and as you said it does go on to say :

https://www.merseyrail.org/media/205064/Final Merseyrail Byelaws.PDF

"No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed. "

pemma · 1 Jun 2017

tony_mac said:
Can I smoke on trains or at a station?
Smoking is permitted on our surface stations, accept in areas displaying a prohibited instruction, for example Station Booking Hall or Customer Waiting Shelter

All enclosed public spaces have to be non-smoking by law. A lot of station platforms are non-smoking because of railway policy not because they legally have to be.

infobleep · 1 Jun 2017

bnm said:
What's to ignore? If there are no 'No Smoking' signs nearby or staff to say no, then a smoker on a platform is not commiting an offence.

Railway Byelaw 3:

"No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed."

How do you suggest they resolve the issue of people smoking at unmanned railway stations? Man them all?

Personally I think there should be a law banning people from smoking outside the doorways to railway stations. If it is already illegal or banned on the railways, then it needs to be better enforced.

Someone smoking at the very far end of a platform is less of an issue for me than someone smoking by the entrance to the station buildings.

infobleep · 1 Jun 2017

Y Ddraig Coch said:
Just out of interest, where is "here"? I thought all railway property had become no smoking. If not this is interesting. Blanket bans made any "sorry mate I didn't realise I couldn't smoke here" arguments....well..... go up in smoke :roll:

I believe Fishguard station is one such place where you can still smoke on the platforms. That sends out a nice uniform message, not. Still how many people use Fishguard who smoke and are aware they can smoke there?

infobleep · 1 Jun 2017

chris89 said:
Not sure on the source but: https://vapeshoreditch.com/blog/vape-near-me-uk-and-beyond

Edit: Not under law, so of course the ban is not enforceable. But is a ban on UK trains apart from one TOC. But really, would you want to sit in a carriage with someone puffing away with one?

It is, If meant other countries was my mistake sorry.

Why would Southeastern want to allow vapping when everyone else doesn't. It's own by Go Ahead, as are some other rail franchises, those franchises banning it.

Bletchleyite · 1 Jun 2017

infobleep said:
Someone smoking at the very far end of a platform is less of an issue for me than someone smoking by the entrance to the station buildings.

DB put smoking areas at the extreme end of platforms on open stations. I think that does make more sense.

Smoking ban, the impact 10 years on.

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