GWR Class 800

D1009 · 13 Jun 2017

swt_passenger said:
1X75 being the Queen's visit for a recreation of Victoria's trip 175 years ago. Neat reporting number...

Thanks, I've only just read the Great Western Livery thread.

RailUK Forums

leomartin125 · 13 Jun 2017

D1009 said:
Noticed something different on RTT today.

5X73 1001 North Pole to Paddington

5X74 1033 Paddington to Reading

5X75 1117 Reading to Slough

1X75 1205 Slough to Paddington

5X76 1312 Paddington to North Pole

The difference being that they are shown with a TOC code of GW rather than ZZ. Is this an indication that the first set has actually been delivered to the TOC, or am I reading too much into it?

The service was operated by GBRf drivers, so should have had a ZZ clasification on RTT. None of the IEP's have been delivered to GWR yet, they are all still owned by Hitachi and operated by GBRf. Today's service was probably run as a GWR service due to the high priority and the people onboard. The last 1X test was done under ZZ rather than GW, but this just had a bunch of Hitachi staff onboard and not the Queen!

HSTfan!!! · 13 Jun 2017

LiftFan said:
I heard these can only go 100 under diesel power - Won't that make the journey times in the non-electrified parts of the south west take longer than the predecessors?

That is incorrect, they will do 125 on diesel eventually, they take a long while to get there. Easily get up to 110-115. What they lose in top end speed they make up for in initial acceleration. On Western Region lines they are not allowed to do more than 110 without the ATP activated.

SpacePhoenix · 13 Jun 2017

South Today mentioned that the first of them are due to be in service in the autumn, will that be electric to Maidenhead then diesel the rest of the way?

coppercapped · 13 Jun 2017

leomartin125 said:
The service was operated by GBRf drivers, so should have had a ZZ clasification on RTT. None of the IEP's have been delivered to GWR yet, they are all still owned by Hitachi and operated by GBRf. Today's service was probably run as a GWR service due to the high priority and the people onboard. The last 1X test was done under ZZ rather than GW, but this just had a bunch of Hitachi staff onboard and not the Queen!

None of the IEP units will be delivered to GWR. They will however be delivered to Agility Trains (West)...

D1009 · 13 Jun 2017

coppercapped said:
None of the IEP units will be delivered to GWR. They will however be delivered to Agility Trains (West)...

However GWR will eventually get to operate them, and when that happens it will be a significant development.

Is this the first time GBRf have been involved in Royal operations?

coppercapped · 13 Jun 2017

D1009 said:
However GWR will eventually get to operate them, and when that happens it will be a significant development.

Why? GWR will only supply the drivers and on-board staff. The IEP units will be owned and maintained by Agility Trains: West in the case of the GWR and East in the case of VTEC. They will offer essentially the same train service as the current HSTs - and not a lot faster.

The Total Train Service Provision payments will however be considerably higher than is currently the case for leasing, track access and maintenance costs of the HSTs. The number of daily diagrams to be operated by the IEP fleet operating on the GW have already been published. As the number of vehicles is also known global figures for fleet availability can be calculated. And for these brand-new, highly reliable, state of the art trains - it is nothing to write home about. In other words, to cover the risk that they will not be paid for a diagram, or part of a diagram, Agility Trains will build more coaches than would seem to be necessary so a spare train or two can be made immediately available.

For the customers, this might seem like a good thing - but the extra costs in order to be able to do this are considerable.

Note however, that the Class 80X trains ordered directly by GWR via Eversholt will not suffer from this curious DfT inspired deal and the costs will be more comparable to the conventional leasing model.

D1009 said:
Is this the first time GBRf have been involved in Royal operations?

JN114 · 13 Jun 2017

leomartin125 said:
The service was operated by GBRf drivers, so should have had a ZZ clasification on RTT. None of the IEP's have been delivered to GWR yet, they are all still owned by Hitachi and operated by GBRf. Today's service was probably run as a GWR service due to the high priority and the people onboard. The last 1X test was done under ZZ rather than GW, but this just had a bunch of Hitachi staff onboard and not the Queen!

The operator will reflect who's safety case the train runs under. Plenty of ATW and Southern drivers drive GWR trains on a daily basis.

jimm · 13 Jun 2017

coppercapped said:
In other words, to cover the risk that they will not be paid for a diagram, or part of a diagram, Agility Trains will build more coaches than would seem to be necessary so a spare train or two can be made immediately available.

Frankly I don't see why being able to mobilise a standby set immediately is a problem, which you seem to be suggesting.

I'm sure I'm not the only person posting here who has found themselves on a Turbo - even just a two-car one - sent out as a stand-in when an HST or 180 has sat down and died in the middle of the day.

A like-for-like replacement would have been rather more acceptable and that should be what happens most of the time in future.

D1009 · 13 Jun 2017

coppercapped said:
Why? GWR will only supply the drivers and on-board staff. The IEP units will be owned and maintained by Agility Trains: West in the case of the GWR and East in the case of VTEC.

I was simply making the point that the end of testing of the trains and the start of preparing them for revenue service will be a significant development, whichever organisations are involved in it.

swt_passenger · 14 Jun 2017

SpacePhoenix said:
South Today mentioned that the first of them are due to be in service in the autumn, will that be electric to Maidenhead then diesel the rest of the way?

Maidenhead to Reading is supposed to be switched on in September some time. That connects to already complete Tilehurst to Didcot. I'd expect a fairly strong possibility of Paddington to Didcot electric services.

But yours is probably more of an infrastructure question, as we already know that IETs can operate of OHLE if the infrastructure is ready.

coppercapped · 14 Jun 2017

jimm said:
Frankly I don't see why being able to mobilise a standby set immediately is a problem, which you seem to be suggesting.

I'm sure I'm not the only person posting here who has found themselves on a Turbo - even just a two-car one - sent out as a stand-in when an HST or 180 has sat down and died in the middle of the day.

A like-for-like replacement would have been rather more acceptable and that should be what happens most of the time in future.

I didn't suggest it was a problem for the passengers affected. What I did write in my post - which was ignored - was:

For the customers, this might seem like a good thing - but the extra costs in order to be able to do this are considerable.

People have to understand the financial implications of the decisions which have been made. In the case of the IEP trains the higher operating expenses will have to come at the expense of not having lee room to be able to hold fares rates steady or the premiums paid by the TOC will be lower than they otherwise would have been. As the Government's finances are stretched at the moment there will be less money available for other things.

devonexpress · 14 Jun 2017

jimm said:
And at the time that was the case - there was the possibility of fitting a buffet - and guess what Virgin is having fitted on the East Coast sets - a buffet/shop...:roll:

GWR has opted not to have a buffet - probably with the DfT taking a close interest, given its insistence that the GW allocation of Class 800s should keep the interior trim picked by civil servants, again as opposed to Virgin which gets to pick its own seat colours.

GWR are getting their own seat colours, September/October time, each train will be handed to GWR who will then to a small amount of work to get the trains into GWR branding interior wise, and vinyl the 800s exterior wise. I asked GWRs facebook team.

leomartin125 · 14 Jun 2017

devonexpress said:
GWR are getting their own seat colours, September/October time, each train will be handed to GWR who will then to a small amount of work to get the trains into GWR branding interior wise, and vinyl the 800s exterior wise. I asked GWRs facebook team.

Of which none of this will be completed by GWR. The IEP's are owned by Agility Trains, so it will be Hitachi staff who will be fitting out the interiors and the vinyls to the IEP's before EIS. I hope that the type of seat the Queen sat in isn't what GWR will call 'First Class' - At the time of the event I was sat in the HST First Class and I must admit, you can definitely see a visual difference. Obviously can't say for physically but really like the MK3 First Class seats.

Clansman · 14 Jun 2017

leomartin125 said:
Of which none of this will be completed by GWR. The IEP's are owned by Agility Trains, so it will be Hitachi staff who will be fitting out the interiors and the vinyls to the IEP's before EIS. I hope that the type of seat the Queen sat in isn't what GWR will call 'First Class' - At the time of the event I was sat in the HST First Class and I must admit, you can definitely see a visual difference. Obviously can't say for physically but really like the MK3 First Class seats.

The size of the seat appears to be bigger than what we saw in photos, after todays video with the Queen onboard. No reason why seats of a similar size to those currently used can't be fitted onboard the IEPs.

It's a pet hate of mine when TOCs don't maximise their seat space...*cough TPE cough*

Peter Mugridge · 14 Jun 2017

Clansman said:
The size of the seat appears to be bigger than what we saw in photos, after today's video with the Queen onboard.

Bear in mind that H.M. The Queen is only 5ft 1 inch tall so the seat she was sitting in will appear bigger...

jimm · 14 Jun 2017

coppercapped said:
I didn't suggest it was a problem for the passengers affected. What I did write in my post - which was ignored - was:

People have to understand the financial implications of the decisions which have been made. In the case of the IEP trains the higher operating expenses will have to come at the expense of not having lee room to be able to hold fares rates steady or the premiums paid by the TOC will be lower than they otherwise would have been. As the Government's finances are stretched at the moment there will be less money available for other things.

I'm sure we are all well aware by now of the nonsense way the DfT went about financing this train fleet - but, as the saying goes, we are where we are.

And passengers whose service will be covered by a standby set if there is a failure really won't care about the ramifications of the contract between the DfT and Agility.

Clansman · 14 Jun 2017

Peter Mugridge said:
Bear in mind that H.M. The Queen is only 5ft 1 inch tall so the seat she was sitting in will appear bigger...

Point taken

spark001uk · 15 Jun 2017

5X43 @ RDG p10 just now, en route to NP. 004 up front, 003 behind (looks to be fully green now, at least on the side I saw!)

800001 · 15 Jun 2017

spark001uk said:
5X43 @ RDG p10 just now, en route to NP. 004 up front, 003 behind (looks to be fully green now, at least on the side I saw!)

003 is all green as it was used to convey The Queen earlier in the week into London Paddington.

83G/84D · 15 Jun 2017

spark001uk said:
5X43 @ RDG p10 just now, en route to NP. 004 up front, 003 behind (looks to be fully green now, at least on the side I saw!)

Both were in Bristol Temple Meads at lunchtime. One (004?) was returning from Taunton and the other joined up to it.

D1009 · 15 Jun 2017

83G/84D said:
Both were in Bristol Temple Meads at lunchtime. One (004?) was returning from Taunton and the other joined up to it.

I can understand them testing that given the problems they have coupling Voyagers in the curved platforms there.

gsnedders · 15 Jun 2017

D1009 said:
I can understand them testing that given the problems they have coupling Voyagers in the curved platforms there.

Esp. given a large part of the IEP spec seems to be "don't give us trains with the same problems as Voyagers".

dp21 · 16 Jun 2017

D1009 said:
I can understand them testing that given the problems they have coupling Voyagers in the curved platforms there.

Coupling on curves is a problem for everyone (speaking from experience of smashed up coupler/electrical heads) so if they're able to find a solution for this then that will certainly attract some interest.

leomartin125 · 16 Jun 2017

Today, Hitachi sent two IEP's (800003 & 800004) to Taunton for a test run much the same as yesterday apart from once the set arrived at Bristol Temple Meads, the sets ran to Stoke Gifford IEP Depot rather than back to North Pole IEP Depot.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97217/2017/06/16/advanced

I managed to capture the IEP's on my way to work at Reading, before they dissapeared West again for however long:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_06vCPCAQg

800001 · 16 Jun 2017

800012 has left Merchant Park this afternoon, on route to Doncaster IEP depot.

800001 · 16 Jun 2017

Doncaster Iep depot today had inside:-

801101 and 801102
800008 and 800009.
Outside was the green 9 car Gwr sets.

samuelmorris · 16 Jun 2017

leomartin125 said:
Today, Hitachi sent two IEP's (800003 & 800004) to Taunton for a test run much the same as yesterday apart from once the set arrived at Bristol Temple Meads, the sets ran to Stoke Gifford IEP Depot rather than back to North Pole IEP Depot.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97217/2017/06/16/advanced

I managed to capture the IEP's on my way to work at Reading, before they dissapeared West again for however long:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_06vCPCAQg

Nice grab, but I wish people wouldn't let youtube auto-stabilise video of railways. It always seems to look worse than before :P

D1009 · 17 Jun 2017

leomartin125 said:
I managed to capture the IEP's on my way to work at Reading, before they dissapeared West again for however long:

May not be long, there are paths showing on RTT tomorrow evening from Stoke Gifford, followed by a night of tests between Reading and Wantage Road.

83G/84D · 17 Jun 2017

As mentioned on some other sites an IEP run into Cornwall is planned for next week. The details are still to be confirmed however it appears it will take place on Thursday.

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