Penalty Fares from Colchester

Hi all,

I travel on the 8:10am service from Colchester to Liverpool St every morning. I believe that Colchester is a Penalty Fare station, however most conductors on this service (originating in Norwich) tend to just ask the offending passengers (with off-peak, short started or those believing Oyster is nationwide) for the difference in fare.

For example, this morning, a large group of students had off-peak tickets and were asked to pay the difference. The conductors machine had run out of paper so he asked them to come see them when arriving at Liverpool Street as he couldn't process their payment. Of course, they got off at Stratford and likely tapped in on a separate Oyster/Contactless card to get away with it.

My point is, why do guards on Intercity seem to be so lenient? When I'm paying so much for a season ticket its annoying to see those winging it!

"An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare to a
person whose ticket is not valid only because of a published
restriction, as described in condition 12 of the National Rail
Conditions of Carriage."

You cannot charge a Penalty Fare for using an off-peak ticket at peak time.

Also, not all staff are Penalty Fare trained. Not sure about GA, but on London Midland guards cannot issue Penalty Fares and instead issue tickets and a penalty fare warning (in theory, at least).

causton said:

"An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare to a
person whose ticket is not valid only because of a published
restriction, as described in condition 12 of the National Rail
Conditions of Carriage."

You cannot charge a Penalty Fare for using an off-peak ticket at peak time.

Also, not all staff are Penalty Fare trained. Not sure about GA, but on London Midland guards cannot issue Penalty Fares and instead issue tickets and a penalty fare warning (in theory, at least).

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Interesting thanks. I'm sure that I've seen those using off peak tickets on peak services be issued with penalty fares on the 'commuter' Colchester to London services (eg those originating in Clacton or Ipswich etc) by revenue staff, is this different?

The National Rail Conditions of Travel (01•OCT•16) section 10.2c state you may be charged a Penalty Fare if you travel on a train service at a time at which your Ticket is not valid. It follows that it is possible but not guaranteed; staff discretion may be applied for example with visitors to the country, or the member of staff encountered may not have been trained to issue Penalty Fares.

I am not sure which document causton quoted above, but it is potentially out of date.

Causton quotes from Rule 7.6 of the Penalty Fares Rules 2002, which remain in force:
https://www.appealservice.co.uk/Documents/SRA-Penalty-Fare-Rules-2002.pdf

These Rules are issued under the Penalty Fares Regulations 1994 under the Railways Act 1993, and provide the statutory basis for the issuing of PFs.

There is no question of discretion; a PF cannot validly be issued in these circumstances, presuming that the sole reason for ticket invalidity was the time restriction on an other flexible ticket.

Perhaps the NRCOT is alluding to travelling on an Advance ticket on the wrong train.

I suspect GA are clamping down on fares abuse on DOO services, I see Advance fares for Ipswich to London stoppers have been withdrawn - after all the chance of been gripped was minimal so £8 & travel when you like was becoming commonplace I hear !! Norwich & Ipswich guards are not Penalty Fare trained.

So that would mean that there is an error in the NRCoC then. Could you still get reported for being found on an otherwise valid ticket but at the wrong time?

gray1404 said:

So that would mean that there is an error in the NRCoC then. Could you still get reported for being found on an otherwise valid ticket but at the wrong time?

Click to expand...

Yes, though you'd probably need to fail the attitude test or admit trying to evade the fare.

Why are we so lenient? because we have 9 coaches of intercity to look after and regular stops with varied dispatch positions. Of a normal trip from London the fast bit to Colchester (if you're lucky) is the only real time to check tickets.

Get the difference out of them, everyone is then on the same level, no arguments no hassle no calls to the police holding up the service. I can and have reported serious/serial offenders as do my colleagues. We're a tight knit bunch on the mainline so nothing much serious gets past us in the end!