I just know the way governments get out of doing things they don't politically want to have to. Claim that it isn't affordable, implement some deckchair rearrangement on deck and brush it under the carpet. All I'm saying is that it's part of thre social contract that the people hold their government to account. Party allegiances are (or should be) a secondary consideration. If one thinks that something out to be done when the 'other party' is in power, logical consistency demands that one feels the same when one's preferred party is in government.
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Huge fire in Grenfell Tower - West London
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I just know the way governments get out of doing things they don't politically want to have to. Claim that it isn't affordable, implement some deckchair rearrangement on deck and brush it under the carpet. All I'm saying is that it's part of thre social contract that the people hold their government to account. Party allegiances are (or should be) a secondary consideration. If one thinks that something out to be done when the 'other party' is in power, logical consistency demands that one feels the same when one's preferred party is in government.
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cjmillsnun
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Most of them are unrefurbished and would have the original (and fire retardant) concrete.
backontrack
Established Member
I was about to jokily suggest that we replace the Millennium Dome with something more practical, before I realised that's actually quite a good idea.
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backontrack
Established Member
Perhaps. But as Blindtraveler said it's imperative that all instances of this cladding have to be removed.
What is wrong with the O2? It's a leisure facility that entertains millions of people every year.
People don't just live to work. I'm sure other places could be converted to housing first.
The pictures in this article are telling. The fire clearly spreads both across and down with a speed that strongly suggests there was something not 'normal' going on.
backontrack
Established Member
chris89
Established Member
My Local Co-operative is having a collection for the appeal that is going on. Being organised by our group (Mid Counties) so sure all other COOPs within my area are doing so, although unsure about one of Bridgnorths as that is Central (Manchester Group). Many many customers are glad and think it is a great idea and have been donating quite a bit as well.
Earlier only come across at least to me one horrid comment being, after saying what been asked to say to customers 'No, they chose to live in a tower block'
Also heard that firemen were also out in Tenbury Wells were also collecting. Also when find out how much the shop has raised shall mention here as well.
Earlier only come across at least to me one horrid comment being, after saying what been asked to say to customers 'No, they chose to live in a tower block'
Also heard that firemen were also out in Tenbury Wells were also collecting. Also when find out how much the shop has raised shall mention here as well.
Busaholic
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An uncontroversial, but telling, comment from a fireman who started his eight-hour shift on Wednesday and was immediately sent to Grenfell. When he ended his shift that evening and took off his Fitbit he had covered eleven kilometres, mostly up and down the stairs lugging equipment. He and his colleagues were immediately soaked on entering the building from all the water gushing down into the stairwell and they experienced conditions that none of them had ever done before and could not have prepared for, mentally or physically, in their worst nightmares.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Having spent 3 nights effectively camping in the Millennium Dome (as was), it certainly wouldn't be my first choice for residential conversion!
theageofthetra
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How about using the 'aid' budget. Or is allowing African dictators + entourage to stay at Claridges a better use of our money?
It does seem to me that some on the left are trying to make political capital out of this which is disgraceful nobody should be doing that for such as terrible disaster as this fire, also a lot of people jumping to conclusions and accusations about who is to blame, when it needs to investigated properly.
I also wonder if regardless of what fire regulations you have for Tower blocks is it not time to consider that no one should have living accommodation that is above the height that can be reached by the fire service?
I also wonder if regardless of what fire regulations you have for Tower blocks is it not time to consider that no one should have living accommodation that is above the height that can be reached by the fire service?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
No it isn't.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I wonder how the residents feel about it. Has anyone asked?
Elsewhere, I have read several right-of-centre posts blaming all this on the EU and taking shots at left-of-centre voters for voting Remain in last year's Referendum, so I don't think your comment is fair.
Philip Hammond says sprinklers may not be best for fire safety
I suggest Phillip Hammond backs up his words by immediately offering a home exchange with a family living on the top floor of a plastic-clad tower block, and stays there unless or until his perspective changes.
I suggest Phillip Hammond backs up his words by immediately offering a home exchange with a family living on the top floor of a plastic-clad tower block, and stays there unless or until his perspective changes.
They might well not be the best solution in all cases.
No, not really. It is entirely possible to have safe high-rise accommodation blocks, and there's not enough land for everyone to live in low-rise unless you want cities to expand considerably.
If that's he case, why have I seen multiple expert opinions this past few days stating that they can barely remember a single case of multiple fire deaths in towers fitted with sprinklers?
I didn't say they aren't a good solution, just that they aren't necessarily a panacea.
If that's the case, how do we explain the fact that several fire prevention experts have said that they cannot recall any more than one tower fire with multiple fatalities where sprinklers were fitted?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Well people say that but the bottom line we have seen haunting images of people on people on the higher floors unable to get out both at this fire and 9 -11 yes the situations were entirely different but the pictures were hauntingly similar, and it would require a major expansion of building land.
It seems to me you can have the best fire regs in the world but if you have a fire that manages to get out of control and you are on the higher floors out of reach of Fire Crews, and there is no way day down then you are stuffed.
I'm not disagreeing that they are a good idea, just pointing out that they aren't necessarily a universal best solution.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Well comments like that are unacceptable as well, but there are plenty jumping on austerity bandwagon when at the end of the day it may boil down to someone/company/organisation not following the Fire Regulations but of course we do not really know that at this stage and even if it boils down to wanting to save £5000 pound, as tragic as that maybe I would hardly blame that on Austerity in general.
I notice quite a few of the placards at the Town Hall demonstration were in Labour Colours, and now there talk of a day of rage, which the more sensible people in Labour party are now trying to rapidly disassociate themselves from.
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ralphchadkirk
Established Member
They were safe in the 70s. Fire regs have changed since then but buildings like this survived with grandfather rights. That doesn't mean they are totally safe now.
Tower blocks built to correct fire and building reg standards now are perfectly safe. It's a knee jerk reaction of the extreme to suggest we should build higher than ladders. You also can't compare 9/11 with this tower block fire - they were fundamentally different. The only similarity is that both were tower-blocks.
Whether it's right to politicise this or not, I struggle to see how you can't. This happened against a background of local government cuts, to the poorest people in the richest borough, with a council that paid "rebates" to the rickets but not the poorest, with a private, outsourced management company that didn't respond to warnings about fire safety, and an almost impregnable network of contractors that makes it hard to identify those responsible. If it was the cladding then I would expect charges of corporate manslaughter to be brought. It was £5000 more in a £10m project to place fire resistant cladding. There is huge anger in Kensington about it, and to underestimate it would be dangerous. This is a defining disaster of a generation and May's political career and she hasn't managed it appropriately at all.
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Fundamentally different yes, but a similar problem until the Towers sadly collapsed, and I ask myself this question would I like to live on the higher floors of a Tower Block and answer is No and it was No even before this fire.
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