bramling
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Maybe, but history shows the does of reality may not turn out to be what people thought or hoped it would be ...
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Theresa May - should she resign?
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Maybe, but history shows the does of reality may not turn out to be what people thought or hoped it would be ...
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Railsigns
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So... People should always vote for the party with the least realistic policies?
SS4
Established Member
It's what we call an implication based on context. Not everything we say is written down. Not everyone broadcasts their true opinions.
I shall refer you to the post #50 in which the implication is made that because countries are in debt social spending should be cut.
Keir Starmer would probably be fine, or Yvette Cooper. There's probably half a dozen more who would be fine but haven't had the exposure. When you have a quite dominant leader and a shadow cabinet that has been chosen mainly for defensive reasons potential leaders don't necessarily get shown off, but it doesn't mean they aren't there
It's just not viable to describe a government which has attacked the public sector and welfare as viciously as Cameron and May's have as centre ground. They may have appropriated the language of the centre ground, but their actions have been radical.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Don't forget the huge deficit that Gordon Brown left behind. Labour supporters conveniently don't seem to understand this bit.
Talking of benefits, when the cuts started I thought the Tories were going to target the masses of people who have no intention of working and breed like rabbits to claim additional benefits. They still seem to go marching on unscathed.
Presumably you haven't heard of the benefit cap then.
In your mind, in Tory election posters, in the pages of the Sun and the Mail, but not in the real actual country.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
I have but they don't seem to be affected
In that case, you either have absolutely no experience of it, or don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
They couldn't target those "masses of people... [who]...breed like rabbits" because guess What? They don't exist, especially in the numbers that Dacre, Desmond and Murdoch would have you believe. Less than one percent of benefit payments is fraudulent, and most of that fraud is people continuing to claim whilst working on the side, or not declaring income from property investments. It's generally a good idea to question what the media tells you, especially the print media... but I suppose for many it makes life easier to believe the myths.
Also, referring to masses of people breeding like rabbits, marching on, etc. has more than a hint of 3rd-Reich-ery about it. I'm sure you weren't intending that but when the rhetoric hits those depths it's a worrying sign.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Oh don't I ? I live in an area where you see them hanging around with their expensive phones. Do you live in a leafy posh area ? No point in arguing.
Railsigns
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It's incredible that people are still trying to peddle this myth.
Finally! Exposed! The Deficit Myth! So, David Cameron When Are You Going to Apologise?
The Overspending Myth Finally Exposed By the IMF, OECD, Treasury, ONS, OBR and IFS
Evidently not.
Wow, point proven then!
No such thing in this area. It's one of the poorest areas in the country.
Ok then.
Whereas you have no experience of the benefit cap, other than seeing people with expensive phones, I do, both from a personal and employment standpoint.
I've been with my partner for nearly 14 years, we have three young children because we breed like rabbits. Unfortunately, about a month before the cap was introduced I had just finished a contract and had no further work lined up in self employment and although I had attended 2-3 interviews for alternative employment, i had nothing concrete. I had to sign on.
With three young children, what we received pre-cap on a standard JSA joint claim plus child benefit and tax credits isn't an enormous amount, but with good budgeting it's perfectly achievable. A month later when the cap arrived, housing benefit was reduced by £46 per week in an instant. £46 may not seem like much, but it's a hell of a lot. Luckily I secured a new contract and managed to sign back off again around 5 weeks later, so we weren't drastically affected.
Further to this, I work 2 days per week for a local private company that has several welfare contracts with the government. I see several clients per week that are affected by this cap, and not all are rabbits trying to work the system. It's a shock to the system for many, with some threatened with eviction by the local housing association or having to make regular visits to the local food bank.
Although i'm sure you still won't believe this and see it as some sort of propaganda of sorts. We all know that anyone visiting a food bank has a 'cashflow' problem.
SS4
Established Member
They've been affected. Unlike the people who actually caused the 2008 crash and got away not only scot free but with a nice bonus! :roll:
What is it that leads you to believe these people are on benefits? For that matter, what makes you think the phones are expensive? I can't immediately tell the difference between a 70 quid phone and 700 quid phone
That's because there's not "masses" of people who do this. The media loves to blow this problem out of proportion in order to gather support for welfare cuts. The vast majority of people who receive benefits genuinely need that support, and either are looking for work or are unable to do so.
As for the "expensive phones" - well even an expensive phone can be acquired for a low monthly cost spread out over many months (in fact the same goes for many appliances bought through loan sharks like Brighthouse), and nowadays even the cheap phones have a wide range of features and look the part. (Lots of the Chinese counterfeit products do look pretty convincing and can be acquired for buttons).
chris11256
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I feel that inevitably May should resign and it's a matter of when not if. However she can't resign in the short term without causing chaos. I doubt she'll still be leader come the next election.
Personally I would happily vote for Boris to be the new leader. He has mass appeal. Even my mum who hates the Conservatives, would vote for them if Boris was leader.
However assumption that if the queens speech vote fails, power can be 'handed over' to Corbyn is ludicrous. The numbers don't add up and he'd be unable to get his Queens Speech passed.
Personally I would happily vote for Boris to be the new leader. He has mass appeal. Even my mum who hates the Conservatives, would vote for them if Boris was leader.
However assumption that if the queens speech vote fails, power can be 'handed over' to Corbyn is ludicrous. The numbers don't add up and he'd be unable to get his Queens Speech passed.
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PhilipRhayader
Member
I find such a view completely incomprehensible. If one hates a party, why on earth would one vote for it on the basis that it has replaced a robotlike character with a mopheaded clown?
bramling
Veteran Member
Boris does have some track record of electoral success, and it certainly wouldn't harm the Conservatives if they could find a way of increasing their vote share in London.
My worry with Boris would be more about whether it would trigger a load of infighting within the party.
The trouble at the moment really is there is a lack of clear leaders-in-waiting. This is largely why May got the role in the first place - she was the "none of the above" candidate. Similar applied with the selection of John Major, although things are different this time because John Major was against Tony Blair who was more appealing to the electorate as a whole than Corbyn.
Yeah, they all get a free car off the council don't they to? Nice watches to I believe! Jog on.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Can you elaborate on this by saying who you feel were the global financial leaders who were responsible for the 2008 crash.
Do you think any one in Lehman Brothers "got away scot free with a nice bonus"
Harbornite
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It might be a reference to this, although these bonuses were paid pre-crash.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/27/business/la-fi-compensation-20120427
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
In his posting, SS4 referred to bonuses paid after the 2008 crash.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Well, I have looked at posting # 50, but I fail to see any mention made there to the cutting of social spending, so can I ask you if you saw that comment in a different posting.
PhilipRhayader
Member
Please provide the actual quote - if it exists.
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SteveP29
Member
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Refer to posting # 74 on the thread.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Are you saying that these are the only financial organisations you hold responsible for the 2008 crash? Do you not consider any of the American financial institutions to have any blame in that matter?
Do you hold the US sub-prime mortgage packaging and reselling by American financial institutions have no part to play in the 2008 crash?
PhilipRhayader
Member
Sorry - that doesn't say they received their bonuses after the crash, just that they got away with it and received their bonus.
PhilipRhayader
Member
But - I thought it was all Gordon Brown's fault!
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