Liberal Democratic Party - Why do they continue

Busaholic · 4 Jun 2017

jcollins said:
I still fail to understand why so many South West Lib Dem seats became Conservative in 2015 as a result of the coalition. Were the voters not thinking or were they angry at the Lib Dems for stopping the inheritance tax threshold being changed to £1m or something?

I've only lived in Cornwall for 29 years, and am no nearer to understanding the Cornish psyche, if there is any such thing, but there has always been a strong tradition of Liberalism which translates specifically as anti-Toryism, and the decision of the LibDems to form a coalition with the arch-enemy in 2010 was taken very personally (and bitterly) down here, so many would not vote for the LibDems in 2015. I almost took this view myself, and would have voted for the Greens, but in the end I had to do my bit to stop the Tory being elected, particularly the person who was the candidate and duly became our MP. When you ask 'were they not thinking?' I would ask that even more of the Referendum result, given the millions the EU have granted to Cornwall and which are now in grave danger of not being replaced by the UK government.

In the case specifically of St Ives, the respective merits of the LibDem and Tory candidates is an issue too.

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Y961 XBU · 4 Jun 2017

jcollins said:
I still fail to understand why so many South West Lib Dem seats became Conservative in 2015 as a result of the coalition. Were the voters not thinking or were they angry at the Lib Dems for stopping the inheritance tax threshold being changed to £1m or something?

Just looking at some results from 2015 some Labour voters switching to Lib Dem won't do enough to win seats like Oxford West and Abingdon. It'll also need Conservative voters to switch parties (like what happened in Richmond Park.) It's also interesting UKIP didn't field a candidate in the Richmond Park by-election to try and prevent a pro-EU MP getting in but are fielding a candidate this time.

I think there was 2 reasons for this:
1. a lot of Lib Dem supporters where furious that the Lib Dems went to government with the tories so a lot of their supporters voted for other partys or did not bother to vote at all.
2. A lot of voters would not seen any point in voting Lib Dem as it was just like voting for the tories

The difference this time around is Nick Clegg is not leading the party and a lot of people dont think Tim Farron would be that daft to side with the tories considering it almost destroyed their party so people now feel they can Vote Lib Dem again as a way to kick the tories out

pemma · 9 Jun 2017

Seats the Lib Dems won:

Tom Brake, Carshalton
Vince Cable, Twickenham
Alistair Carmichael, Orkney and Shetland
Edward Davey, Kingston and Surbiton
Tim Farron, Westmorland and Lonsdale
Wera Hobhouse, Bath
Christine Jardine, Edinburgh West
Norman Lamb, North Norfolk
Stephen Lloyd, Eastbourne
Layla Moran, Oxford West and Abingdon
Jamie Stone, Caithness
Jo Swinson, Dunbartonshire East

They just missed out on Fife North East (by 2 votes), Richmond Park (by 45 votes), while the results in Ceredigion and St Ives were also close.

BBC have been discussing a nationwide trend of voters from smaller parties switching to both Labour and the Conservatives.

Howardh · 9 Jun 2017

jcollins said:
Seats the Lib Dems won:

Tom Brake, Carshalton
Vince Cable, Twickenham
Alistair Carmichael, Orkney and Shetland
Edward Davey, Kingston and Surbiton
Tim Farron, Westmorland and Lonsdale
Wera Hobhouse, Bath
Christine Jardine, Edinburgh West
Norman Lamb, North Norfolk
Stephen Lloyd, Eastbourne
Layla Moran, Oxford West and Abingdon
Jamie Stone, Caithness
Jo Swinson, Dunbartonshire East

They just missed out on Fife North East (by 2 votes), Richmond Park (by 45 votes), while the results in Ceredigion and St Ives were also close.

BBC have been discussing a nationwide trend of voters from smaller parties switching to both Labour and the Conservatives.

If they hadn't lost Clegg and had won two of those 4 close seats, then I would have suggested the Libdems came out of the evening heads held high. As it is, a middling result, note how the SNP have dipped from an all-time high just as the Libdems had an all-time high in 2010.

Now time to regroup, maybe make Cable the leader, drop the dodgy cigs policy and fight the autumn election on no or fluffy-soft Brexit?

pemma · 9 Jun 2017

Howardh said:
Now time to regroup, maybe make Cable the leader, drop the dodgy cigs policy and fight the autumn election on no or fluffy-soft Brexit?

When Cable lost his seat he said he wouldn't re-stand in 2020 (probably because of how old he'll be by then) so he'd probably only be a short term leader if he was to be elected leader (like Menzies Campbell in the past.)

What about Jo Swinson as leader? She seems like someone with left of centre views, with experience as a junior minister but not a very prominent figure in either the coalition or the EU referendum campaigning.

edwin_m · 9 Jun 2017

Had the Tories had slightly fewer seats they would have had to come to some arrangement with the Lib Dems as well as the DUP (unlikely any other party would consider it). The result could have been the abandonment of some of the more radical Tory ones and even some Lib Dem priorities getting into law. This helps to explain why the Lib Dems don't disband as suggested by the OP.

Howardh · 9 Jun 2017

jcollins said:
When Cable lost his seat he said he wouldn't re-stand in 2020 (probably because of how old he'll be by then) so he'd probably only be a short term leader if he was to be elected leader (like Menzies Campbell in the past.)

What about Jo Swinson as leader? She seems like someone with left of centre views, with experience as a junior minister but not a very prominent figure in either the coalition or the EU referendum campaigning.

*Admits* no idea about Jo - therefore I assume the general public wouldn't either. Cable as interim is a thought, but if it's only interim then that means chopping and changing. Think maybe Fallon should stay until the autumn just in case, and then maybe hand over to someone who knows the ropes full-time.

jon0844 · 9 Jun 2017

jcollins said:
BBC have been discussing a nationwide trend of voters from smaller parties switching to both Labour and the Conservatives.

While Labour is proud to have cut the gap behind the Tories, they only gained votes in Welwyn Hatfield at the expense of UKIP.

It seems nearly all the UKIP votes went to Labour (pretty much 11% both ways), but Conservative still managed a 0.5% increase and won quite comfortably.

Labour seems to think this is a victory but until they can take Tory votes (the opposite happened), I am not sure they'll win here anytime soon.

pemma · 9 Jun 2017

Howardh said:
*Admits* no idea about Jo - therefore I assume the general public wouldn't either. Cable as interim is a thought, but if it's only interim then that means chopping and changing. Think maybe Fallon should stay until the autumn just in case, and then maybe hand over to someone who knows the ropes full-time.

'No idea about' isn't necessarily a bad thing. Both Blair and Cameron went from being nobodies to being Prime Minister in less than one term. I'm not implying Ms Swinson could become PM in 2022 but it's possible she could become a real strong and stable party leader by 2022 (not just one who says she is.)

Y961 XBU · 10 Jun 2017

Good night for the Lib Dems coming 4 MPs higher so on the road to recovery, glad to see Nick lost his seat as he deserved that, can see the party making more gains next time around

Senex · 10 Jun 2017

Y961 XBU said:
Good night for the Lib Dems coming 4 MPs higher so on the road to recovery, glad to see Nick lost his seat as he deserved that, can see the party making more gains next time around

What's the point of the LibDems if they are just another party of the Left, rather than a genuine party of the Centre-to-Leftish-Centre which is what Nick Clegg seemed to be in favour of? If people want Left, they've got Labour.

Y961 XBU · 10 Jun 2017

Lib Dems are of the left but they do offer other policys to the other partys witch gives the voters another option at the ballot box, If there was no demand for the Lib Dems then they would not be growing in size

as for Nick Clegg i blame him for torie rule, if they did not side with them then the Lib Dems would not of lost all them seats to them and the tories would ever of been in power

pemma · 10 Jun 2017

Senex said:
What's the point of the LibDems if they are just another party of the Left, rather than a genuine party of the Centre-to-Leftish-Centre which is what Nick Clegg seemed to be in favour of? If people want Left, they've got Labour.

Nick Clegg seemed to want the Lib Dems to be a party between the Conservatives and Labour so if you thought the Conservatives were too right wing and Labour were too left wing then the Lib Dems would be positioned to attract you. However, Labour have deserted what used to be a popular left-of-centre position in favour of a left wing position and the Conservatives have claimed they've taken the centre position (and surprisingly some voters believe them.)

As for why vote Lib Dem:
- You may be in favour of schools and the NHS getting more funding but you might not support some of the more socialist policies contained in the Labour manifesto.
- You may be in favour of staying in the single market (both the Conservatives and Labour are in favour of pulling out.)
- You might not like Labour's lack of environmental policies but also don't want to vote for a party that puts environmental issues first (the Greens.)
- They committed to raise welfare in line with inflation, whereas Labour just made a vague promise of making welfare fairer.

I'm sure there's many more possible reasons if you compare the manifestos.

takno · 10 Jun 2017

Howardh said:
Now time to regroup, maybe make Cable the leader, drop the dodgy cigs policy and fight the autumn election on no or fluffy-soft Brexit?

As a matter of interest why would you drop the "dodgy cigs policy"? It's a policy that's got majority support in recent polls, and is strictly in the Liberal tradition so likely to disproportionately appeal to their likely voters.

Butts · 16 Jun 2017

PHILIPE said:
It makes me wonder how the Liberal Party and later the Liberal Democratic Party has survived over the years. Not since the end of David Lloyd George's tenure in 1922 have they been any force and, in most General Elections, have only held a small handful of seats. The party, which had previously been the main opposition party to the Conservatives was in rapid decline in the 20s and Labour had replaced them as the Main opposition to the Conservative party. It would seem that the party was on the way to a terminal decline but they still seem to soldier on rather than throw the towel in with statistics showing how the odds are stacked against them with no sign of any revival. As we know, they formed a Coalition with the Conservatives in 2010 but that was only at the behest of the Conservatives so they could form the Government. They perhaps have tamed the other parties controversial policies at times as they did when in Coalition.

Well they are extinct in Wales as far as MP's are concerned !!

Call for Lembit

pemma · 16 Jun 2017

Butts said:
Well they are extinct in Wales as far as MP's are concerned !!

Not that it really matters when looking at the whole UK. The Conservatives had a majority UK government in 2015 despite having no seats in Northern Ireland and only one seat in Scotland.

317 forever · 17 Jun 2017

There are echoes of Go-Ahead in the locations of English LibDem MPs.

Their 3 London constituencies (Carshalton & Wallington, Kingston & Surbiton and Twickenham) are all served by Go-Ahead London route X26.

Eastbourne is served by Brighton & Hove routes 12/12a. Oxford West & Abingdon is served by Go-Ahead Oxford Bus.

The LibDems and Go-Ahead have a south western outpost, in Bath and Plymouth respectively. They also both have rural representation in Hoveton in North Norfolk.

Finally, they both cover a large area in the far north of England, Westmorland & Lonsdale and the wider Gateshead & Sunderland area respectively.

Jonny · 17 Jun 2017

Busaholic said:
Mine too - a politician with a sense of humour, who didn't take himself too seriously but also had a very sharp brain. He was too good to flourish in that circus of mediocrities that comprises a good part of the lobbyfodder, regrettably.

Sadly, too much a lover of ethanoated beverages... by his method of demise.

Busaholic · 17 Jun 2017

317 forever said:
There are echoes of Go-Ahead in the locations of English LibDem MPs.

Their 3 London constituencies (Carshalton & Wallington, Kingston & Surbiton and Twickenham) are all served by Go-Ahead London route X26.

Eastbourne is served by Brighton & Hove routes 12/12a. Oxford West & Abingdon is served by Go-Ahead Oxford Bus.

The LibDems and Go-Ahead have a south western outpost, in Bath and Plymouth respectively. They also both have rural representation in Hoveton in North Norfolk.

Finally, they both cover a large area in the far north of England, Westmorland & Lonsdale and the wider Gateshead & Sunderland area respectively.

I like your thinking! In London, if Simon Hughes had managed to regain Bermondsey, then the coincidence would have been even greater. Going further back, Orpington Man not only voted Liberal but lived in what has become Metrobus land.

Not sure Bath and Plymouth have much in common. You could buy a whole street of properties in the latter for less than the one in the former!

317 forever · 17 Jun 2017

Busaholic said:
I like your thinking! In London, if Simon Hughes had managed to regain Bermondsey, then the coincidence would have been even greater. Going further back, Orpington Man not only voted Liberal but lived in what has become Metrobus land.

Not sure Bath and Plymouth have much in common. You could buy a whole street of properties in the latter for less than the one in the former!

Yes, Bermondsey has plenty of Go-Ahead buses too! I think I was just treating Bath and Plymouth as isolated south western cities in the LibDem or Go-Ahead camps.

Furthermore, the first few seats declared were in Newcastle, Sunderland and Swindon, all of which see Go-Ahead buses!

me123 · 18 Jun 2017

Jo Swinson has ruled herself out of the running - which is a shame because she'd be my choice if I had a vote. That said, she will become Deputy Leader.

BBC news

pemma · 18 Jun 2017

me123 said:
Jo Swinson has ruled herself out of the running - which is a shame because she'd be my choice if I had a vote. That said, she will become Deputy Leader.

BBC news

She's put herself up for a position which wasn't in use.

Her quote making generalisations about men and women has put me off her.

AlterEgo · 18 Jun 2017

jcollins said:
She's put herself up for a position which wasn't in use.

Her quote making generalisations about men and women has put me off her.

Indeed. What a stupid and unhelpful thing to write.

Liberal Democratic Party - Why do they continue

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