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Freedom of North East rover validity

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lejog

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It doesn't on the one I have in front of me.

It doesn't matter whether or not "As Advertised" is printed on the tickets. The latest Consumer Rights Act makes it clear that any written or verbal description of the service is binding on the seller and becomes a term of the contract.

Its the railway's problem that their documentation is inconsistent, the Northern document is legally binding.
 
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yorkie

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For such a condition to be binding, it would need to be made clear when you bought the ticket.

I don't see how it can be binding anyway as TOC-specific tickets need to have any such a restriction printed on the ticket.

'Unrouted' fares are valid on any operator.
 

Starmill

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I have specifically put this question to a Grand Central guard. They said they always accept them. If this was a rule for himself only or something else wasn't clear. In conversation with a Hull Trains guard, he also mentioned that "we do take those, including East Yorkshire and North East rovers, it's just we can't sell them to people". Again, if that's a comment on policy or him personally I could not say.
 

yorkie

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I'm not sure why Northern try to deter us using them on GC/HT, but it reminds me of GTR trying to deter people using their products on VTEC.
 

bb21

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I don't think it has anything to do with Northern trying to deter customers using them on GC or HT. It may well be that they do not receive any revenue so are in the right not accepting them, but the ticket restrictions are not printed consistently and/or correctly in all relevant publicity.

You are overthinking this. Northern have nothing to gain by doing what you suggested.
 

bb21

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I don't believe revenue allocation determines validity.

I foresaw such a reply coming when I typed up my post as I know this place too well to not.

I didn't say it did. I made no such claim re: validity.
 

Harpers Tate

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It might make sense for the two OA TOCs to formalise this seemingly "unofficial" position, and thereby get their 50p (or whatever) from the sale of each. Interestingly, the similar East Midlands Rover is (according to NRE) accepted by Hull Trains - presumably for use between Retford and Grantham. In this context, Grand Central wouldn't be relevant as they don't stop in the area covered.

None of which resolves the inconsistency as regards East Midlands Trains and the NE rover.
 

DaiGog

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If a guard has an Avantix in their hand, they can sell any national (regional) rover product. If they think they can't, it's either a training issue, or they haven't issued one for so long they can't remember how to do it and don't have the time or the inclination to find out.

Each regional rover product is assigned to and managed by a franchised TOC. The owning TOC is responsible for price and validity changes, including which TOCs do or do not participate. The open access operators, which came along after privatisation, were for that reason not automatically included in the rover scheme from day 1 of the privatised world. If an operator is missing from the list of valid TOCs for a rover product, either they have not been invited (or they have not asked) to join, and will receive no revenue from it.

The All Line Rover is different in that it is managed by RDG, with price and validity changes agreed by TOC representatives collectively.
 
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Haywain

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If a guard has an Avantix in their hand, they can sell any national (regional) rover product. If they think they can't, it's either a training issue, or they haven't issued one for so long they can't remember how to do it and don't have the time or the inclination to find out.
Avantix is gradually disappearing from the network and many of the replacements will not be equipped to sell rovers.

Each regional rover product is assigned to and managed by a franchised TOC. The owning TOC is responsible for price and validity changes, including which TOCs do or do not participate. The open access operators, which came along after privatisation, were for that reason not automatically included in the rover scheme from day 1 of the privatised world. If an operator is missing from the list of valid TOCs for a rover product, either they have not been invited (or they have not asked) to join, and will receive no revenue from it.

The All Line Rover is different in that it is managed by RDG, with price and validity changes agreed by TOC representatives collectively.
Returning to my earlier point, the revenue from rover tickets is generally very small to an individual TOC to start with, so there's not much incentive to ask to share it more widely and little incentive for an open access operator to ask to be given a share of it.
 

Haywain

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For a start, any of those using PRT (paper roll tickets). Others may not have chosen to have rovers included given that it needs additional functionality compared to 'normal' tickets.
 

221129

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For a start, any of those using PRT (paper roll tickets). Others may not have chosen to have rovers included given that it needs additional functionality compared to 'normal' tickets.

Really? I am fairly sure that our PRT machines will issue rangers and rovers.
 

mister-sparky

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I used a FONE Rover on EMT (Retford-Sheffield), Grand Central (Wakefield-Doncaster) and Hull Trains (Selby to Retford) back in April and had the ticket checked on every train and not one of them queried it or said it wasn't valid.
 

TUC

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For a start, any of those using PRT (paper roll tickets). Others may not have chosen to have rovers included given that it needs additional functionality compared to 'normal' tickets.

Surely more recent technology should make it more possible, not less, to sell a brosder rsnge of tickets?
 

221129

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Surely more recent technology should make it more possible, not less, to sell a brosder rsnge of tickets?

I'm not sure where that poster got their info from but as far as I can tell it appears to be an incorrect assumption.
 
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ash39

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I intend to do a 7 day FONE starting next Thursday, and my plans include a few journeys using Hull Trains, Grand Central and EMT (Sheffield-Leeds). Whilst I don't expect any grief using the rover, it'll be interesting to hear what the guards make of it. I'm sure they won't come across them very often?

Will report back!
 

Haywain

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I did yes, I can 100% assure you that it is possible to sell rovers from Star Mobile and with Paper Roll Tickets.
I can assure you that not all on-board systems have that capability, and I am not aware that there is an RSP approved PRT format for Rovers and Rangers.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Harpers Tate

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Doesn't represent exceptional value IMO, compared to other longer-standing ticket types (with much, much larger coverage areas, including premium priced "express" routes; FOTNE 4 in 8 £97 includes the ECML between Retford and Berwick, for example).
 

ash39

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No, seems like terrible value when you compare it to a North Country or Freedom of North West Rover. Can't see many being sold.
 
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