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2245 Blackpool North - Manchester Airport cancelled (15/07)

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yorkie

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2245 Blackpool North - Manchester Airport appears to be cancelled, but has been deleted from departure screens. It was due to depart Manchester Piccadilly at 2359.

Has anyone got any ideas on what passengers should do?
 
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Bungle965

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Their own journey check has it down as going to Manchester Victoria however being cancelled before it has even left Blackpool North due to 'A member of train crew being unavailable'
Sam
 

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yorkie

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Northern Rail staff at Manchester Piccadilly said to customers that the train is cancelled, there is no rail replacement bus, and you'll have to make your own way home.

Does anyone know if Northern Rail are allowed to get away with this?
 

BestWestern

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Northern Rail staff at Manchester Piccadilly said to customers that the train is cancelled, there is no rail replacement bus, and you'll have to make your own way home.

Does anyone know if Northern Rail are allowed to get away with this?

I presume this is the last service of the day? In which case surely that's a big 'No!'?
 

SpacePhoenix

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RTTs is showing the previous service 1U84 as last having reached Salford Crescent on time at 22:43 and having departed at 22:48, no further tracking so no idea if it's broken down around there. You're train is showing on RTT as having been cancelled due to a problem with the traction equipment.

According to National Rail Enquires, for Northern:

Trains between Manchester Airport and Blackpool North will run between Manchester Victoria and Blackpool North.

Looks like it's bustitution around Manchester Airport, next bus between Blackpool North and Manchester Aiport is http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/bus/Y29066/2017/07/16/advanced
 

yorkie

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I presume this is the last service of the day? In which case surely that's a big 'No!'?
It's the last Northern service to Manchester Airport, yes.

TPE run an 0040 bus to the Airport non-stop, not calling at the intermediate stations.

So customers for any intermediate stations were told to make their own way home, with no offer of any alternative transport.
 

tspaul26

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Northern Rail staff at Manchester Piccadilly said to customers that the train is cancelled, there is no rail replacement bus, and you'll have to make your own way home.

Does anyone know if Northern Rail are allowed to get away with this?

Almost certainly a breach of NRCOT n. 28.1.

However, in order to maximise the chances of any legal recompense or recovery for such a breach of contract it will generally be necessary for the passengers affected to make a written note of:
  • Locus
  • Dramatis personae
  • Who said what to whom
  • Each person's response
  • Particulars of any loss or expense

In particular, the precise words used by railway officers when telling everyone "you're on your own" would need to be recorded in writing at this stage in order to provide a degree of contemporary corroboration and act as an aide-memoire.

These written notes could then be used to assist in pursuing the matter, whether by way of direct discussions (e.g. customer service channels) or through more formal proceedings (e.g. forming the basis of witness statements in a civil action).
 

tspaul26

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It's the last Northern service to Manchester Airport, yes.

TPE run an 0040 bus to the Airport non-stop, not calling at the intermediate stations.

So customers for any intermediate stations were told to make their own way home, with no offer of any alternative transport.

TPE may also be in breach of NRCOT n. 28.1, although this is less clear cut.
 

BestWestern

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All that should be needed is a simple statement that the individual(s) concerned wished to travel to X, Y and Z, and Northern failed to accommodate that. The TOC will have a record of whether or not any travel facility was provided.
 

yorkie

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I spoke to Northern on behalf of the customer; it took quite some time to convince them that the train should have ever existed, because it has been deleted from several systems.

By the time I got agreement that the customer was entitled to a taxi, they had already made alternative arrangements of their own.

This was partly due to the long wait to even speak to someone, and partly down to the length of time it took for Northern's representative to understand the issue and accept that they should be providing transport. The person was helpful and doing their best but they appeared to be on their own (other than being able to contact control) and did not have easy and immediate access to the relevant information.

I think most people would give up, or perhaps not be capable of being assertive enough to have that conversation and know what to say to convince the representative that the train did exist. I suspect people got home by taking a night bus and walking or getting a lift from someone, or a taxi at their own expense.

I would be interested to know if deleting the train from the screen was a deliberate act to reduce the number of people claiming a taxi, or if it was a mistake?

A last train of the night from a major station like Manchester Piccadilly should see some sort of notice/instructions/staff presence, surely?
 

pemma

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A last train of the night from a major station like Manchester Piccadilly should see some sort of notice/instructions/staff presence, surely?

Last week the last ATW service to Shrewsbury from Piccadilly was showing as cancelled on the departure screens with no further information. Passengers wanting that service couldn't find a member of staff - one of them found a Northern guard on his way to a train and I'm guessing he did something because a couple of minutes later there was an announcement that the departure displays were wrong and that the Shrewsbury service would be running and passengers were to go to platform 9. I wonder if the error would have been noticed if the passenger hadn't found a member of staff.
 

70014IronDuke

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IS this one of those trans hated by staff because of the typical behaviour from a significant proportion of alchohol-fuelled louts?
 

pemma

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Almost certainly a breach of NRCOT n. 28.1.

How would EU law work in such circumstances. In the absence of alternative transportation being provided by the operator would the passenger be able to book in to a hotel and invoice the cost of the hotel back to the rail operator?
 

tspaul26

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How would EU law work in such circumstances. In the absence of alternative transportation being provided by the operator would the passenger be able to book in to a hotel and invoice the cost of the hotel back to the rail operator?

I'm not sure that recourse to EU law is necessary in this particular situation: satis est corpus juris angliae.*

*English law is enough.
 
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Merseysider

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IS this one of those trans hated by staff because of the typical behaviour from a significant proportion of alchohol-fuelled louts?
From what I can remember of taking this train weekly, about two years ago, not really. It's the Wigans, Boltons and Glossops that are the 'loudest'.
tspaul26 said:
satis est corpus juris angliae.
We don't all speak Latin ;) presumably something about an English court sufficing?
 
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scrapy

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Looks like this train should have never shown as going through to the airport in the first place. There was a possession all day at Ordsall Lane junction and all other services from Blackpool were diverted to Victoria. It looks like someone has made a mistake and left this one in the system as running the full route.

In my opinion there should have been a bus from Salford Crescent for all stations to the airport ideally supplemented by a train from Manchester to the Airport. However to leave people stranded when a train is advertised (by mistake or not) is unacceptable.
 

Starmill

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The thing I don't understand is why there was no replacement bus ordered to cover the cancelled last service of the day. Regardless of the cause of the cancellation, be it engineering work or something else, surely this would be the usual procedure?

This train quite often runs in part or in whole as one or more buses because of engineering work or occasionally driver shortage.
 

abbo1234

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I get this train from Blackpool North to Chorley every weekend,and is quite often cancelled,usually due to a shortage of train crew.
This week it was cancelled both on Friday and Saturday.Same reason Apparently!
 

scrapy

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One of the main problems affecting this service and other Blackpool to Manchester Airport services is that they are crewed by a mini link of ex TPE staff at Blackpool on separate terms and conditions. There has been no attempt to harmonise the staff by Northern and as the jobs have 185 work on and have different scheduling agreements (eg walking time and breaks) original Northern drivers and guards can't be given these jobs.

There is therefore a dwindling number of people to roster onto these jobs when somebody is unavailable as people leaving this link aren't replaced. Granted if the service is a pair of 156's original Blackpool Northern staff who are sat spare can work them subject to route knowledge (they don't sign Chat Moss if routed that way or past Oxford Rd) so again it becomes a problem. Wigan or Victoria crews could work them (if 156s) but would need to get back to their depots for finishing time and you really don't get many (or any) people sat spare or volunteering for overtime on a Saturday night. There is also a lack of goodwill towards the company to do overtime as employee relations are at an all time low since Arriva took over particularly at Blackpool due to the attitudes of some managers.

A lot of it really is due to Northern's management not getting their act together over sorting out integrating ex TPE staff into the company and there is no urgency from the top to do anything about it in the near future.
 
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pemma

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Surely a late Saturday service via Bolton is going to be affected by regular engineering works over the next few months so Northern should have plans in place for serving the immediate stations on the Airport line when that train doesn't run.
 

Starmill

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Surely a late Saturday service via Bolton is going to be affected by regular engineering works over the next few months so Northern should have plans in place for serving the immediate stations on the Airport line when that train doesn't run.

In the past they have run both buses and trains that originate at Manchester Piccadilly and do all stations to Manchester Airport (in addtion to other measures, such as diverting the train to Victoria, going via Wigan or terminating at Preston and running a bus from there through to the Airport).

Quite why they were not in place then I don't know.
 
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