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westcoaster

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So you would prefer airlines to have to pay no compensation at all?

That's not the point I was trying to get across, my point is we are now in a situation where they will delay a small number of people 300 in this example 38 hours instead of a few. Rather than 900 people a few hours because of the eu legislation on compensation.

Would you be happy being delayed 38 hours on a 7 day holiday, just because it's cheaper for them to delay you. But people on the next flight go on time, and enjoy their 7 day holiday. I think not.
 
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atillathehunn

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Was reading about this hefty delay http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-40684551

But what thomson or tui did not disclose is, they delayed it on operational reasons.
The aircraft should have flown ABZ-FARO-ABZ then ABZ- Dalaman -ABZ. Then the next morning ABZ-CORFU ABZ.
Because the aircraft went tech they knocked the faro rotation on the head, but the Dalaman afternoon flight left on time, th3y then rescheduled the faro flight after the corfu rotation the next day. Same aircraft an ASL 737-700. Reading other forums the concensus is it was done due to the eu flight compensation rules. Pay the compensation to 300 people instead of to 900.
So basically delay 300 people for 38 hours instead of 900 for a few.

How the eu ruins people's holidays.

Let's take your example. A family of four takes a holiday. They are delayed - with duty of care taken care of - for 38 hours, and are given €300 each. So, €1200. For a holiday in Faro, that's probably 1 maybe 2 adults paid for out of the compensation. Delaying me a day on my 7 day holiday but - effectively - neutralising much of the holiday cost, seems fair to me.
There would be no guarantee that all the flights would be able to operate if they continued to operate in order. Airports closed, slots missed, etc.
 

berneyarms

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That's not the point I was trying to get across, my point is we are now in a situation where they will delay a small number of people 300 in this example 38 hours instead of a few. Rather than 900 people a few hours because of the eu legislation on compensation.

Would you be happy being delayed 38 hours on a 7 day holiday, just because it's cheaper for them to delay you. But people on the next flight go on time, and enjoy their 7 day holiday. I think not.

I suspect that EU compensation or not that the airline may have made the same decision.

It's not good for the passengers on the Faro flight, but I can certainly remember being in a similar circumstance way back in the days before EU compensation rules were implemented.

In a case like this, operations are faced with tough decisions (EU rules or not), and sometimes yes flights will then be rescheduled in such a way to keep the delays restricted to the minimum number of passengers. Not good for those on the delayed flight, but in my experience where there were significant delays such as this, non uncommon (even back before EU compensation rules).
 

berneyarms

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It operated a flight in from Hong Kong overnight - perhaps a charter bringing Liverpool FC back from the pre-season tournament there?
 

dosxuk

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I suspect that EU compensation or not that the airline may have made the same decision.

It's not good for the passengers on the Faro flight, but I can certainly remember being in a similar circumstance way back in the days before EU compensation rules were implemented.

In a case like this, operations are faced with tough decisions (EU rules or not), and sometimes yes flights will then be rescheduled in such a way to keep the delays restricted to the minimum number of passengers. Not good for those on the delayed flight, but in my experience where there were significant delays such as this, non uncommon (even back before EU compensation rules).

Indeed. As horrible as it is for the original passengers, it's a lot easier to deal with 300 pax complaining and needing support than it is 3000.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Might be more to it that that; Air Britain News has recently stated that MAS would be leasing or chartering out their A380s full time ( as opposed to the previous intention of selling them ) although I don't think that's actually started yet.

When it does, however, it would seem likely that they'll start popping up in all sorts of unexpected places.
 

atillathehunn

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How dare they - only southerners should be entitled to A380's. ;)

We get three A380s a day....

I think the confusion was that it belong to Malaysian, who don't serve Manchester....


Given that Malaysian took Liverpool off a while ago on their pre-season tour in an A380 to Hong Kong, I think it being connected to that would be the most obvious connection to draw.

Perhaps Peter's comment on Malaysian shedding some of their fleet has some merit, though I believe that there was some talk of some going to BA and some going to Turkish (not heard this rumour for a long time, though). Emirates has more A380s than they know what to do with, and so I cannot imagine they would end up at Manchester.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I just read back through the most recent issues of ABN and I think the football charter is more likely for the simple reason that the Malaysian A380 chartering out won't start until 2019 and will be aimed purely at the pilgrimage market via a new subsidiary airline with six A380-800s re-fitted to between 650 and 700 seats.

That sounds like they'll be in an all economy layout on both decks doesn't it?
 

atillathehunn

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I just read back through the most recent issues of ABN and I think the football charter is more likely for the simple reason that the Malaysian A380 chartering out won't start until 2019 and will be aimed purely at the pilgrimage market via a new subsidiary airline with six A380-800s re-fitted to between 650 and 700 seats.

That sounds like they'll be in an all economy layout on both decks doesn't it?

At 700 seats that's a level far, far beyond economy. While the A380 is certified for about 850, I think the recommended level is about 500.

There's a lot of traffic to Saudi for the pilgrimages, a new subsidiary to that makes sense, especially with the Muslim $ growing in importance.
 

Stompehh

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At 700 seats that's a level far, far beyond economy. While the A380 is certified for about 850, I think the recommended level is about 500.

It isn't any different to normal economy. The ~525 seat 'standard layout' is in a three class configuration.

650-700 seats sounds to me like maybe a two-class configuration with economy and premium economy.
 

atillathehunn

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It isn't any different to normal economy. The ~525 seat 'standard layout' is in a three class configuration.

650-700 seats sounds to me like maybe a two-class configuration with economy and premium economy.

Nope, it's not.

Emirates 2 class A380 (Y and J) have 557 in Y. The fairly small J cabin wouldn't take another 150 seats+

BA is 303 in Y.

Malaysian 420 Y seats in a 3 class config.
 

Stompehh

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Emirates 2 class A380 (Y and J) have 557 in Y. The fairly small J cabin wouldn't take another 150 seats+
Doing the maths, it seems all-economy is closer to the mark than my "2-class". But all economy is possible with the same standards as current.

The top deck is split almost perfectly in half, into Y and J. The Y half has 120 seats. Swap the J cabin for Y and you gain 120 Y-class, giving 677 total.
 
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TheAlbanach_

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Flew BA today on two short hops, Edinburgh to Heathrow on a 19 year old 767 and Heathrow to Brussels on a 17 year old A319. 767 was full, found that surprising. Cabin Crew got through the whole plane really fast, not a lot of people bought anything from them really... 767 was really dated but loved the 2-3-2 layout. On the flight to Brussels it was the same, full flight and not a lot of people bought anything on the flight. Surprising really because when I've been on EasyJet a lot of people are buying from the trolley. Maybe BA are losing money on it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fowler9

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Flew BA today on two short hops, Edinburgh to Heathrow on a 19 year old 767 and Heathrow to Brussels on a 17 year old A319. 767 was full, found that surprising. Cabin Crew got through the whole plane really fast, not a lot of people bought anything from them really... 767 was really dated but loved the 2-3-2 layout. On the flight to Brussels it was the same, full flight and not a lot of people bought anything on the flight. Surprising really because when I've been on EasyJet a lot of people are buying from the trolley. Maybe BA are losing money on it?


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Would love to go on a 767. I've bored everyone before I fear with my love of the A340 and the 2-4-2 layout, 2-3-2 sounds very nice though.
 

Butts

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Flew BA today on two short hops, Edinburgh to Heathrow on a 19 year old 767 and Heathrow to Brussels on a 17 year old A319. 767 was full, found that surprising. Cabin Crew got through the whole plane really fast, not a lot of people bought anything from them really... 767 was really dated but loved the 2-3-2 layout. On the flight to Brussels it was the same, full flight and not a lot of people bought anything on the flight. Surprising really because when I've been on EasyJet a lot of people are buying from the trolley. Maybe BA are losing money on it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From my recent trip on BA from MAN-LUX via LHR I agree with your observations on the BOB take up - minimal.

However I would have thought the major benificiaries would be the Crew, who seemingly have far less to do than under the comp regime when just about everyone had to be served. :idea: - Any mention of the reduced workload in the current dispute ?

Also BA have not got the hang of "meal deals" aka Flybe etc and of course don't take cash.
 
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ModernRailways

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Flew BA today on two short hops, Edinburgh to Heathrow on a 19 year old 767 and Heathrow to Brussels on a 17 year old A319. 767 was full, found that surprising. Cabin Crew got through the whole plane really fast, not a lot of people bought anything from them really... 767 was really dated but loved the 2-3-2 layout. On the flight to Brussels it was the same, full flight and not a lot of people bought anything on the flight. Surprising really because when I've been on EasyJet a lot of people are buying from the trolley. Maybe BA are losing money on it?

I think one of the key issues BA has with their selling food is the fact that they're using M&S. So already expensive (in some cases) food/drink is then marked up even higher. Easyjet and the like have a mark up but the clientele are also different. BA isn't a budget airline, but they are acting like they are. If I'm spending £100 on a flight from NCL-LHR then an extra £10 for a sandwich and drink isn't going to happen. If I'm spending £30 on my flight from NCL-SXF with EasyJet then I'm much more likely to buy something on board, because 'well my ticket was so cheap I might as well'.

It's also cheaper on other airlines. Take Easyjet, it's £7 for a sandwich, snack, and drink.
On BA it's £5 for the sandwich, £2 for a drink, and then a snack will cost another £2. So that's £9. £2 more than EasyJet.

BA's market is completely different to the budget airlines, they seem to be failing at understanding that.

All this is without going into the other meals that budget airlines offer, EasyJet have a breakfast deal for £3.50, a Hot Drink deal, a Kids lunch box deal. All of which BA doesn't offer.
 
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Butts

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I think one of the key issues BA has with their selling food is the fact that they're using M&S. So already expensive (in some cases) food/drink is then marked up even higher. Easyjet and the like have a mark up but the clientele are also different. BA isn't a budget airline, but they are acting like they are. If I'm spending £100 on a flight from NCL-LHR then an extra £10 for a sandwich and drink isn't going to happen. If I'm spending £30 on my flight from NCL-SXF with EasyJet then I'm much more likely to buy something on board, because 'well my ticket was so cheap I might as well'.

It's also cheaper on other airlines. Take Easyjet, it's £7 for a sandwich, snack, and drink.
On BA it's £5 for the sandwich, £2 for a drink, and then a snack will cost another £2. So that's £9. £2 more than EasyJet.

BA's market is completely different to the budget airlines, they seem to be failing at understanding that.

All this is without going into the other meals that budget airlines offer, EasyJet have a breakfast deal for £3.50, a Hot Drink deal, a Kids lunch box deal. All of which BA doesn't offer.

Agree with most of that - however to be fair their tea and coffee is actually cheaper than Flybe at least at £2.30 against £2.50 - not sure what easyjet charge.
 

Bletchleyite

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Agree with most of that - however to be fair their tea and coffee is actually cheaper than Flybe at least at £2.30 against £2.50 - not sure what easyjet charge.


2.50 I think. As for coffee, it's Ryanair who are the kings of that, the filter cups are really quite good. TPE do it as well.
 

atillathehunn

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I think one of the key issues BA has with their selling food is the fact that they're using M&S. So already expensive (in some cases) food/drink is then marked up even higher. Easyjet and the like have a mark up but the clientele are also different. BA isn't a budget airline, but they are acting like they are. If I'm spending £100 on a flight from NCL-LHR then an extra £10 for a sandwich and drink isn't going to happen. If I'm spending £30 on my flight from NCL-SXF with EasyJet then I'm much more likely to buy something on board, because 'well my ticket was so cheap I might as well'.

It's also cheaper on other airlines. Take Easyjet, it's £7 for a sandwich, snack, and drink.
On BA it's £5 for the sandwich, £2 for a drink, and then a snack will cost another £2. So that's £9. £2 more than EasyJet.

BA's market is completely different to the budget airlines, they seem to be failing at understanding that.

All this is without going into the other meals that budget airlines offer, EasyJet have a breakfast deal for £3.50, a Hot Drink deal, a Kids lunch box deal. All of which BA doesn't offer.

There's a lot in there, all contributing. The 'no cash' rule is hurting, as is people who are eligible for lounge access with BA's Exec Club FFP stocking up in the lounge before boarding.

May also lose some on the hub nature of their business - eating during transit does pass the time...
 

Techniquest

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2.50 I think. As for coffee, it's Ryanair who are the kings of that, the filter cups are really quite good. TPE do it as well.

TPX use those filter cups too? Oh now I really do need a proper full day of travelling with them!

Agreed that Ryanair rule the skies when it comes to that filter coffee, it's excellent stuff and well worth the extra compared to the rubbish you get on BA, Flybe and the others!
 

Bletchleyite

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TPX use those filter cups too? Oh now I really do need a proper full day of travelling with them!

Yep :)

Agreed that Ryanair rule the skies when it comes to that filter coffee, it's excellent stuff and well worth the extra compared to the rubbish you get on BA, Flybe and the others!

The filter cups are a good example of clever business practice - finding a premium-looking product that people are actually happy to pay through the nose for.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Okay, I may have to try Ryanair once, just for this coffee everyone talks about!
 

AlterEgo

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Might be more to it that that; Air Britain News has recently stated that MAS would be leasing or chartering out their A380s full time ( as opposed to the previous intention of selling them ) although I don't think that's actually started yet.

When it does, however, it would seem likely that they'll start popping up in all sorts of unexpected places.

I read there was a significant market in the Hajj pilgrimages - imagine A380s operating from Malaysia, a majority Muslim country - and the money that can bring.
 

AlterEgo

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There's a lot in there, all contributing. The 'no cash' rule is hurting, as is people who are eligible for lounge access with BA's Exec Club FFP stocking up in the lounge before boarding.

May also lose some on the hub nature of their business - eating during transit does pass the time...

Good points.

I must say I almost never buy on board - with exceptions made for proper hot food (Aer Lingus have a half-decent menu).
 
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