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Delay Repay on the train part of the MegaBusPlus?

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AnkleBoots

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The 1415 from St Pancras on Monday was severely delayed and the guard kept telling us about the Delay Repay scheme. But can MegaBusPlus ticketholders get it?

They also insisted on taking name and address for a potential emergency evacuation. What does taking these details achieve?
 
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Blindtraveler

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Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
A rail staff member might well have the answer to the name and address thing but I would assume its for the unthinkable situation where you are injured during evacuation?

On the rail leg of Megabusplus sadly delay repay doesnt count, I would hope Megabus did sort you all out on arrival at Parkway and get you all where you were going?
 

philthetube

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I have been asked to get precise numbers pending an evacuation, and to see if there were any passengers with mobility problems but never other details.
 

Tim R-T-C

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They also insisted on taking name and address for a potential emergency evacuation. What does taking these details achieve?

There have been situations where people have claimed for whiplash injuries etc for being involved in train incidents, who were not actually on the train.

Given the small, but not insignificant risk of injury from walking along track/ballast, perhaps it is to ensure that any injury claims are from people actually aboard the train.
 

AnkleBoots

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Happily there was no evacuation and the buses at East Midlands Parkway were still waiting after 2 hours!

(I was kind of hoping they would have gone and we could have continued by train!)
 

island

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As part of the quid pro quo for the extreme discounts on MegaBusPlus tickets, DelayRepay is not provided.
 

telstarbox

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Does that mean any TOC can set up their own service "outside the NRCoT" if they provide their own channel for booking the ticket? Or is it not that simple?
 

AlterEgo

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Does that mean any TOC can set up their own service "outside the NRCoT" if they provide their own channel for booking the ticket? Or is it not that simple?

It's always been unclear how it was allowed, exactly. I recall dealing with a few Megabus cases when I worked at VTWC.

My take on it is that it is possible to travel on National Rail trains outside the NRCoT, for example, when you are on an employee pass, or a complimentary ticket, or have otherwise not purchased a "rail ticket" for your journey.

It remains to be seen whether a MegabusPlus ticket is a "rail" ticket or not, but there's some shaky ground there, as most of the journeys are undertaken wholly by rail.

NRCoT

When you buy a Ticket to travel on scheduled train services on the National
Rail Network you enter into a legal Agreement with each of the Train Companies whose trains your Ticket allows you to use.

....

Please note that neither a Train Company’s staff nor a Licenced Retailer’s staff have the authority to waive or change these Conditions unless they are specifically allowed to within these Conditions.

Hmm.
 

AlterEgo

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Hmm indeed. However, I would say that Delay Repay is outside the NRCoT so that might not be a factor.

It may be, but the NRCoT still lists the "grandfather" delay compensation in 32.5. So it implies "something" must be due.
 

najaB

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It may be, but the NRCoT still lists the "grandfather" delay compensation in 32.5. So it implies "something" must be due.
I suppose the legal nicety is that you are paying for a bus ticket, where part of the bus journey is provided by a bus replacement train service. :)
 

island

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What is a Ticket? A MegaBusPlus booking is just a sequence of characters.
 

sheff1

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...the NRCoT still lists the "grandfather" delay compensation in 32.5. So it implies "something" must be due.

I suppose the legal nicety is that you are paying for a bus ticket, where part of the bus journey is provided by a bus replacement train service. :)

What is a Ticket? A MegaBusPlus booking is just a sequence of characters.

A "Ticket" is defined in the NRCoT as "any physical or electronic document or record which entitles a passenger to make a journey on the National Rail Network ... ".

Therefore, a "sequence of characters" (i.e. record) allowing travel by train is a ticket for the purpose of the NRCoT.

Megabus state that bookings for megabusplus services are in accordance with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (sic}. I am unconvinced that their claimed ability to override condition 32.5 would stand up if challenged in court.
 

Josie

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Is the difference not that the contract here is with Megabus and not with the train companies? For MegabusPlus, part of the journey is subcontracted to EMT, but the passenger hasn't bought a train ticket which the TOCs have to honour. If the trains were cancelled it would be up to Megabus to get the passenger to their destination, not EMT.

Buying from, e.g., a travel agent or a TOC ticket office is different because you're entering into a contract with the train companies and so the NRCoT and delay schemes apply.

That's my reading of it, anyway.
 

najaB

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The Megabusplus Conditions of Carriage seem to indicate that the NRCoC (now the NRCoT) applies to the booking...
The specific language is 'in accordance with' - which isn't quite the same thing as saying that the NRCoT applies.
 

john21wall

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Just wondering if anyone has ever taken advantage of the seemingly cheap offers MegaBus(Plus) and MegaTrain have?

I've been looking into going places and getting out of the house, and these seem like good opportunities. I know MegaBus use their own branded coaches, and the train portion is done on I believe East Midlands Trains & South West Trains, as they're both owned by Stagecoach, who run the MegaBus(Plus) & Megatrain schemes.

So, what exactly does one get for the price? I assume its not like RyanAir, and they'd charge you for every breath if they could find a way to measure it, at least?
And of course, where exactly does one manage to get for their £1 + 50p booking charge?
 

sheff1

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Is the difference not that the contract here is with Megabus and not with the train companies? For MegabusPlus, part of the journey is subcontracted to EMT, but the passenger hasn't bought a train ticket which the TOCs have to honour. If the trains were cancelled it would be up to Megabus to get the passenger to their destination, not EMT.

Buying from, e.g., a travel agent or a TOC ticket office is different because you're entering into a contract with the train companies and so the NRCoT and delay schemes apply.

That's my reading of it, anyway.

Not sure what it is that you are reading, but the NRCoT are very clear:
NRCOC B. Introduction said:
When you buy a Ticket to travel on scheduled train services on the National Rail Network you enter into a legal Agreement with each of the Train Companies whose trains your Ticket allows you to use.

Unless your argument is that the "legal Agreement" referred to in the NRCoT is somehow not a contract ?
 

najaB

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Not sure what it is that you are reading, but the NRCoT are very clear...
I agree. However, what is less clear is if you are buying 'a ticket to travel by train', or a ticket to travel from Point A to Point B which the travel provider has chosen to sub-contract to a train company.
 

sheff1

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I can see no lack of clarity.

The wording is "a Ticket to travel on scheduled train services on the National Rail Network".

To travel with the authority of the "sequence of characters" (i.e. Ticket) mentioned up thread you MUST travel on the scheduled train service you booked. The Ticket is not valid on any other train. Neither would it valid on any road coach/bus from London unless Megabus/Stagecoach decided to provide a replacement service which, in this case, they did not do.
 

najaB

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I can see no lack of clarity.

The wording is "a Ticket to travel on scheduled train services on the National Rail Network".
This is getting into minutiae, and I don't agree with the position I'm proposing, but is there a legal difference between 'a ticket to travel on a scheduled service' and 'a ticket which allows you to travel on a scheduled service'?

I believe that Stagecoach take the position that there is, and in the case of Megabus Plus you are paying for a bus ticket, with a bus-replacement train service for part of the journey.
 

jkdd77

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The outgoing SWT franchise agreement states:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...6360/RED_SSWT_Franchise_Agreement__x___1_.pdf
13.6 The Franchisee shall, subject to and in accordance with the Ticketing and Settlement
Agreement, introduce ‘megatrain.com’ Fares on the following Flows by 31 December 2007:
I presume that the EMT agreement has similar language.
It seems clear, from the TSA:
“Fare” means the right, exercisable against one or more Operators (and, where applicable, another
person or persons), subject to the Rights and Restrictions applicable to it and the payment of the
relevant Price (less any applicable discounts):-
(a) to make one or more journeys on the Network (whether or not together with other
rights); or
(b) to carry on such a journey an item of luggage or an animal, where this right does not
arise (except on the payment of a fee) under the National Rail Conditions of Carriage or, as
the case may be, the CIV Rules or any additional conditions that are applicable,
and from basic principles of contract law, that:
1) the contractual agreement for travel is directly with the TOC, with 'Megabus', insofar as it even legally exists as an entity, acting as the TOCs agent, rather than the contray;
2) these are rail tickets for rail journeys, not bus journeys; and
3) that the NRCoC (as it then was, now of course NRCoT) applies to them.

I don't think franchised TOCs can pick and choose which bits of the NRCoT to apply based on whether they like them or not. I therefore suggest that the denial of the minimum compensation standards (and the excess fare provisions) set forth in the NRCoT is legally doubtful, albeit that the TOCs know perfectly know that no sane people is going to sue over a debt of £1, or even £3.
 

Clip

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Worth noting that not every TOC has delay repay only a passenger charter so that may be how they can get around it.
 
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