Hull Trains Struggling for Rolling Stock Again

F Great Eastern · 14 Apr 2009

We are very sorry that following an earlier train breakdown, the following services will not operate today:

08:12 Hull to London King's Cross
11:48 London Kings Cross to Hull
15:18 Hull to London King's Cross
18:50 London King's Cross to Hull

Anybody know what Two trains are out of action? I'm guessing there must be two for all those journeys to be out when they are supposed to have a spare

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voyagerdude220 · 14 Apr 2009

I forgot to post on here that I noticed on the NXEC website, that an NXEC service had been delayed by around 30 minuted "due to the proceeding Hull Trains service developing a fault".

I then looked into it on the Transport direct departure board system, as it lets you look up with good detail, every train departure throughout that day, and discovered that the 18:50 Kings Cross to Hull ended up arriving in Hull just over an hour late because of this unknown train fault, IIRC including 30 minutes or so in Retford station.

Mcr Warrior · 14 Apr 2009

F Great Eastern said:
We are very sorry that following an earlier train breakdown, the following services will not operate today:

08:12 Hull to London King's Cross
11:48 London Kings Cross to Hull
15:18 Hull to London King's Cross
18:50 London King's Cross to Hull

Anybody know what Two trains are out of action? I'm guessing there must be two for all those journeys to be out when they are supposed to have a spare

:roll: Would say that this is the same train set.

Starts off as the 0812 from Hull arriving London Kings Cross at 1051.
It then forms the 1148 from Kings Cross arriving in Hull at 1425.
Which turns around as the 1518 from Hull arriving in Kings Cross at 1812.
And finally works as the 1850 from Kings Cross arriving back in Hull at 2128.

voyagerdude220 · 14 Apr 2009

Having just had a proper look at the diaram quoted, i think my theory of the affected set being on the 18:50 ex Kings Cross last night is very probable, as i'm guessing that it would berth over night in the Hull area, before forming a morning service from Hull the next day.

222001 · 14 Apr 2009

A 180 or the 222 then? My bets are on it being a 180.

They should have 4 trains available. Unless the 222 is set to move soon as the date for the Corby services starting is coming up fast.

bengolding · 14 Apr 2009

voyagerdude220 said:
I forgot to post on here that I noticed on the NXEC website, that an NXEC service had been delayed by around 30 minuted "due to the proceeding Hull Trains service developing a fault".

I then looked into it on the Transport direct departure board system, as it lets you look up with good detail, every train departure throughout that day,

Are you implying that it is possible to view historical live departure boards for earlier in the day? I know this is possible on TRUST and NRES call centre staff are able to tell you what time a train actually arrived earlier in the day, but I didn't know it was avaiable online.

Looking at the Transport Direct website, the LDB page simply gives a link to the Nationalrail LDB. How did you access historical live departure train running earlier in the day?

tbtc · 14 Apr 2009

222001 said:
They should have 4 trains available. Unless the 222 is set to move soon as the date for the Corby services starting is coming up fast.

I hope this doesn't disrupt that schedule

Death · 14 Apr 2009

222001 said:
A 180 or the 222 then? My bets are on it being a 180.
They should have 4 trains available. Unless the 222 is set to move soon as the date for the Corby services starting is coming up fast.

I got the impression that Hell Trains had grabbed a number of 180 Adelantés off of FGW when the latter finally realised that the HST is far superior and more reliable compared with those pieces of Alsthom crap...But if I may ask, where on Earth are HT's 222 Pioneers going to? Have they flogged them to EMT or something?

hock:

jopsuk · 14 Apr 2009

Yup, EMT, so they can get mixed up and "accidentally" run a four car where at one point MML ran nine cars... because you just know it will happen.

1D53 · 14 Apr 2009

One of the 180's reportedly a bit warm last night at Retford.

asylumxl · 14 Apr 2009

Hull Trains isn't having a good few weeks. First someone jumps infront of one, now this?

voyagerdude220 · 14 Apr 2009

bengolding said:
Are you implying that it is possible to view historical live departure boards for earlier in the day? I know this is possible on TRUST and NRES call centre staff are able to tell you what time a train actually arrived earlier in the day, but I didn't know it was avaiable online.

Looking at the Transport Direct website, the LDB page simply gives a link to the Nationalrail LDB. How did you access historical live departure train running earlier in the day?

http://www.transportdirect.info/web....aspx?CurrentLanguage=English&repeatingloop=Y

On the above link, you can type in your station, type in the time of departure and it should produce the requested train. For arrivals, click the arrivals tab on the screen. You can type in the required time in time box, and also change "when" from now to either "Tomorrow" "First Today", "First Tomorrow", "Last Today", or "Last Tomorrow".

However, i've spotted a big difference in the way the system shows up on Internet Explorer 8, compared to the Internet Explorer 7 on my laptop, with the latter being far easier to use IMO.

JsT said:
One of the 180's reportedly a bit warm last night at Retford.

That would explain why i remembered the affected train having around 30 mins in Retford, to "cool down" then..

222001 · 15 Apr 2009

asylumxl said:
Hull Trains isn't having a good few weeks. First someone jumps infront of one, now this?

They had the supposed fire on 222104 a week or two back too.
Really not going well for them.

Sir_Clagalot · 15 Apr 2009

There was a 180 at KGX at 1605 as we pulled in, it left!!

F Great Eastern · 15 Apr 2009

Due to rolling stock problems the following Hull Trains services will not operate today: 08:12 Hull to London King's Cross

Surely they had time to get the spare in place? Must certainly mean there are two out of action.

11:48 London King's Cross to Hull canceled as well now.

Was originally meant to be using these this week, what are they supposed to do with tickets now, seeing as FHT have different ticketing to franchised operators?

222001 · 15 Apr 2009

Is it really that hard to have 3 out of 5 (out of 6 if 180113 is ready for traffic) trains working! Are the 180s really that crap.

They never had this problem when under the 4 222s

F Great Eastern · 20 Apr 2009

Due to unrelated technical problems with some of our trains over the weekend, we are forced to operate a revised schedule of services today. This may result in some passengers having to change at Doncaster.

Connection times will be kept to a minimum and staff will be on hand to assist. Most journeys provide passengers with an arrival at their destination close to the scheduled time.

Where necessary, arrangements are in place to allow customers to travel to their destinations by alternative services.

Can't help thinking that the 180's could ruin the reputation of Hull Trains

fgwrich · 20 Apr 2009

F Great Eastern said:
Can't help thinking that the 180's could ruin the reputation of Hull Trains

Sadly, tend to agree...What Alstom should do, as they designed the 180's so badly, is pay-out to Hull Trains so say Bombardier could re-engine them...

Sad really is i always preferd the 180's over the Bombardier stuff 220's - 222's etc...

222001 · 20 Apr 2009

F Great Eastern said:
Can't help thinking that the 180's could ruin the reputation of Hull Trains

We all thought this would happen when it was first announced that Hull Trains would be getting them. They need to hang onto 222104 for dear life!

If this continues what will they do!

Max · 20 Apr 2009

I've spoken to a friend who was on the last HT arrival into Hull last night, apparently an engine failed, causing a 90 min delay. Probably explains the cancellation of the 1707 off Hull tonight, which I had been planning to catch. How many units is that gone now?

BOSCH · 20 Apr 2009

Christ,doesnt bode well for us then does it !!

devon_metro · 20 Apr 2009

fgwrich said:
Sadly, tend to agree...What Alstom should do, as they designed the 180's so badly, is pay-out to Hull Trains so say Bombardier could re-engine them...

Sad really is i always preferd the 180's over the Bombardier stuff 220's - 222's etc...

Re-engineering them would be a colossal job. They've been sat in a siding for months and previously on FGW doing all stopper Paddington - Exeters and the like. The HST fleet is suffering from stopping at all of the ridiculous stations that don't deserve a service to London and quite frankly the fuel costs are astronimical.

Hopefully the sustained 125mph running on HT/GC should sort them out.

87015 · 20 Apr 2009

Have to have a few screws lose to take 180s on in the first place - can't be too many who are surprised they are sitting down all over the show.

Would have been good trains if they had worked properly, far better than 22x rubbish inside.

Andrew · 20 Apr 2009

The 180s were awful at introduction but for the past 5 (ish) years they haven't been too shabby, although I don't know how many diagrams FGW were running (was it 11 off 14? Maybe 12).

Anyway, it may be that they're just having a bad spot, which isn't ideal (far from it!) but should be temporary. Have their maintenance regimes changed at all? I thought the HT sets were still going back and forth to OO, but are they now at Crofton or somewhere? This could definitely affect the sets' performance.

222001 · 20 Apr 2009

Andrew said:
Have their maintenance regimes changed at all? I thought the HT sets were still going back and forth to OO, but are they now at Crofton or somewhere? This could definitely affect the sets' performance.

They are being maintained by Bombardier at Crofton.

16CSVT2700 · 20 Apr 2009

fgwrich said:
Sadly, tend to agree...What Alstom should do, as they designed the 180's so badly, is pay-out to Hull Trains so say Bombardier could re-engine them...

Sad really is i always preferd the 180's over the Bombardier stuff 220's - 222's etc...

The engines are not the problem. It's the shoddy wiring looms that are causing the majority of the failures. They were present in the introduction and nothing has been done about it.

Why? £££

F Great Eastern · 20 Apr 2009

They now have a graphic on their home page saying:
Please check the 'travel news' section for information that may affect your service.

Which suggests they expect that it may happen quite a few times in the future, hardly inspires confidence!

222001 · 20 Apr 2009

16CSVT2700 said:
The engines are not the problem. It's the shoddy wiring looms that are causing the majority of the failures. They were present in the introduction and nothing has been done about it.

Why? £££

Doesn't sound like an easy problem to fix. I can see the 180s being dumped in about ten years, TOCs will not want the hassle. I don't think they will be with Hull Trains for more than a couple of years.
As soon as more suitable intercity style stock comes up for lease Hull Trains might take it. Hull Trains are a prime candidate for the bi-mode IEP actually!

F Great Eastern · 20 Apr 2009

HT are in a very awkward position here.

In a non refurbished state the 180's are a far inferior train to that of the 222's because they simply cannot offer the service onboard that HT passengers come to expect such as the catering etc.

However a refurbishment for such trains which are so unreliable could be very cost ineffective, when they got their extended rights they wanted this until 2016 so they could make it worthwhile to do the refurbishment.

With this performance HT won't be able to last until 2016 with these trains at the current rate as if it's not the reliablity causing these issues their reputation will be totally trashed and they will be losing customers who get fed up with these constant breakdowns and cancellations.

Isn't the last 222 supposed to go next week? Thats a scary thought.

yorkie · 20 Apr 2009

And what experience do Bombardier have of Alstom designed diesel hydraulic trains?

Didn't alarm bells start to ring anywhere?

I don't like rattling 222s to travel on but having a small fleet of relatively reliable trains looked after by the same company that built them and knows them inside out is a good plan, so why change it?

Hull Trains Struggling for Rolling Stock Again

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