• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Boarded wrong train - Did I do the correct thing?

Status
Not open for further replies.

flyGRX

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2012
Messages
8
Hello everyone,

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum as this is more a "what would have happened if I hadn't... would have I been liable for a fine/prosecution?".

In short, I bought a ticket from AFK to CBW but I boarded a train on platform 5 instead of 6 (same Southeastern high-speed train, only 2-3 minutes before my actual train). Once I got on the train and it started moving, I realised that I had taken a Stratford-bound train :roll: (non-stop to Stratford as well, as some call at Ebbsfleet). It was early in the morning (around 7.45) and I tried to find a member of staff on board to try to explain what had happened and even buy a ticket from them if necessary. However, I was unable to find anyone nor I had anyone checking tickets during my short 30-ish minute ride to Stratford. I got off the train and went up to the gates where I explained what had happened to a Southeastern lady at the barriers. She then told me: "Oh, just jump on another train back, then", to which I replied: "right, but I need to buy a ticket, no?", to which she said: "oh... then speak to my colleague at excess fares". Anyway, I go to his colleague and I explained the situation to him, and he sort of told me the same thing: "Right, go to platform 3 and take the next train". This was a bit weird, almost as if I was told by two DIFFERENT members of staff to just board a train in the opposite direction without paying for a ticket (even though it was clearly a silly mistake I had made, but still!). I bought a ticket eventually (I was sold a return) and travelled back to Ashford then to Canterbury, as originally planned.

My question is... did I do the correct thing? Should have I just followed these two people's instructions and just jumped on a train back without a ticket? (I don't think so!). I had a couple of well-travelled friends telling me: "no no, you shouldn't have bought a ticket! it was clearly a mistake! you never went past the barriers at Stratford anyway!" but of course I've been around these forums for a while now (not that I post much, but still), and reading some of the stories here I really did NOT want to risk a penalty fare, or even worse, prosecution.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance for your comments!
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
If you feel that morally you should have purchased an extension ticket then I cannot say it is the wrong thing to do, and good for you.

But in theory, you did not need to buy the extra ticket. Staff are required to use discretion in these situations, and allow the customer to simply jump on the next train heading to their destination, and most do, if you show the right attitude. As you have spoken to two members of staff there should be no doubt. I would be very surprised if the guard charged you.
 

185143

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2013
Messages
4,486
You were given permission to travel by two members of staff-you would have had no issue.
 

Chew Chew

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
511
If you feel you made the correct decision then you did.

For all we read about ticketing issues on here when I've made an error the train staff have always been really decent.

The other week I was travelling from Stockton to Aberdeen and had to get a VTEC from Darlington to Edinburgh on an advance ticket. Tired after a long journey the previous day and a long day I got on the first VTEC to Edinburgh that pulled in never expecting there to be 2 in the space of 10 minutes. :oops: I thought that there was just a decent amount of padding in the journey so the train had arrived a little early. My own fault but when the ticket inspector came down the train I explained the situation and he just told me to change onto the correct train at the next shared stop which was Newcastle.

Likewise, a few weeks before that I got on the wrong train for my normal local commute between Aberdeen and Portlethen. Instead of getting the local service that only goes as far as Stonehaven I got on the service which is advertised in Aberdeen station as first stop Montrose! Once again I explained to the inspector who advised that the first stop was Stonehaven although they don't advertise it (it shows on the journey planner) and he endorsed my ticket to get back to Portlethen.

On both occasions it was completely my fault but they were willing to listen and help me out.
 
Last edited:

goblinuser

Member
Joined
12 May 2017
Messages
292
So far in my experience normal staff usually have good discretion and if there is an issue like this will be understanding.

The only thing to worry about would be the Southeastern revenue people catching you. They are more harsh than the everyday staff and the permission you got at Stratford would just be your word against theirs.
 
Last edited:

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
6,574
Location
Merseyside
I believe you could have travelled back with no additional charge as you received permission from members of staff.

I do think there is a serious issue in the railway that station staff and guards apply common sense very well to situations. Then, when someone encounters a member of revenue protection staff they are treated a lot more harshly. This is wrong and I would like to see this culture change.
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
20,036
Location
No longer here
Strictly speaking the OP did the right thing, as they had authority to travel.

It was however an unwise move in retrospect, as there was no proof of that authority and they risked being taken to task by an RPI.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,880
Location
Lancashire
The staff could of course endorsed the ticket for the journey back to avoid trouble with the RPIs
 
Last edited:

district

Member
Joined
4 Aug 2011
Messages
1,098
Location
SE16
This happens all the time at Ashford. People board Dover/Margate HS1 trains in the evening peak but want the Medway towns, or people get confused by the XX:15 towards the coast and the XX:16 to London. I've never asked anyone to buy an additional ticket when I've been approached and I generally endorse the back of the ticket to allow them to travel back. This is so common and happens several times a shift.
 

xotGD

Established Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
6,063
Being asked to pay for a journey you didn't wish to make always seems to be a bit harsh.

The only time I have ended up in the wrong place (falling asleep between Edinburgh and Newcastle, ending up in Darlo) I was allowed to travel back to Newcastle without having to pay any extra.

(Yes, the odd drink might have been taken earlier in the day!)
 

talltim

Established Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
2,454
The staff could of course endorsed the ticket for the journey back to avoid trouble with the RPIs
I've had a guard endorse my ticket when I did a similar thing. I was very grateful to him
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
The guard of the 1109 Brum Int to Aber/Pwllheli did at least two. Not surprising when the only place the destination was shown was on the seat reservation labels. A very, very poor show really; any attempt to charge them would have been totally off.
 

EM2

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
7,523
Location
The home of the concrete cow
The staff could of course endorsed the ticket for the journey back to avoid trouble with the RPIs
Highspeed barrier staff have the mobile numbers of all OBMs, and it's simple for them to see who is working which service and give them a ring just to let them know.
 

dvboy

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
1,937
Location
Birmingham
I feel a bit hard done by now when I got on at Wolves for Stafford once and the first stop was Stoke, was made to buy a single from Stoke back to Stafford by the guard.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,692
Location
Scotland
I feel a bit hard done by now when I got on at Wolves for Stafford once and the first stop was Stoke, was made to buy a single from Stoke back to Stafford by the guard.
I guess because there aren't that many trains that call at Wolverhampton and Stoke but not Stafford.

Ignore the above, I made a mistake with RTT.
 
Last edited:

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
6,574
Location
Merseyside
I feel a bit hard done by now when I got on at Wolves for Stafford once and the first stop was Stoke, was made to buy a single from Stoke back to Stafford by the guard.

So the guard on the train from Wolves understood and didn't charge you. But the guard on the second train out of Stoke made you pay. When was this? If recently, let us know.

I would not have paid any additional fare to the guard.
 
Last edited:

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,157
Location
West of Andover
I guess because there aren't that many trains that call at Wolverhampton and Stoke but not Stafford.

Ignore the above, I made a mistake with RTT.

Used to be every hour on Sundays (XC Manchester - Bristol), even skipped Stockport. Changed last December I think so those services are the usual stops.
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,842
Hello everyone,

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate forum as this is more a "what would have happened if I hadn't... would have I been liable for a fine/prosecution?".

In short, I bought a ticket from AFK to CBW but I boarded a train on platform 5 instead of 6 (same Southeastern high-speed train, only 2-3 minutes before my actual train). Once I got on the train and it started moving, I realised that I had taken a Stratford-bound train :roll: (non-stop to Stratford as well, as some call at Ebbsfleet). It was early in the morning (around 7.45) and I tried to find a member of staff on board to try to explain what had happened and even buy a ticket from them if necessary. However, I was unable to find anyone nor I had anyone checking tickets during my short 30-ish minute ride to Stratford. I got off the train and went up to the gates where I explained what had happened to a Southeastern lady at the barriers. She then told me: "Oh, just jump on another train back, then", to which I replied: "right, but I need to buy a ticket, no?", to which she said: "oh... then speak to my colleague at excess fares". Anyway, I go to his colleague and I explained the situation to him, and he sort of told me the same thing: "Right, go to platform 3 and take the next train". This was a bit weird, almost as if I was told by two DIFFERENT members of staff to just board a train in the opposite direction without paying for a ticket (even though it was clearly a silly mistake I had made, but still!). I bought a ticket eventually (I was sold a return) and travelled back to Ashford then to Canterbury, as originally planned.

My question is... did I do the correct thing? Should have I just followed these two people's instructions and just jumped on a train back without a ticket? (I don't think so!). I had a couple of well-travelled friends telling me: "no no, you shouldn't have bought a ticket! it was clearly a mistake! you never went past the barriers at Stratford anyway!" but of course I've been around these forums for a while now (not that I post much, but still), and reading some of the stories here I really did NOT want to risk a penalty fare, or even worse, prosecution.

What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance for your comments!

As somebody else mentioned this happens a lot on platform 5 and 6 at Ashford with trains going in both directions. I think staff are fairly pragmatic about it and accept that mistakes are made and won't compound the misery by charging the passenger. They often sign the ticket in such circumstances.
 

dvboy

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
1,937
Location
Birmingham
So the guard on the train from Wolves understood and didn't charge you. But the guard on the second train out of Stoke made you pay. When was this? If recently, let us know.

I would not have paid any additional fare to the guard.

No, the guard on the first train, when I presented the outward part of a return from Wolves to Stafford, he sold me a single to get back to Stafford from Stoke.

October 2014.
 
Last edited:

AndyY

Member
Joined
10 Dec 2013
Messages
92
Location
Borehamwood
Similar thing happened to me a few years ago after I had too much to drink at the company Christmas party. Instead of getting off at my normal stop, I slept through it and opened my eyes to find myself at a station 4 stops later!

There was nobody on duty at the time, and although there was a ticket machine, I could not get it to work with my card. I took a chance and got on the next train, fortunately there was no ticket inspector on the train. Not sure what would have happened if they caught me - I suppose I can blame the company for putting out unlimited alcohol? :)
 

gray1404

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2014
Messages
6,574
Location
Merseyside
No, the guard on the first train, when I presented the outward part of a return from Wolves to Stafford, he sold me a single to get back to Stafford from Stoke.

October 2014.

That is strange. I would have though it would not have concerned about that as the second leg was not his train, and changes are the second guard would have let you off once you explained you had been over carried. The first guard could have written on your ticket "Please pass to Stafford as over carried." Sign, date, ID number/head code.

Its a shame its not recent as I'd have taken it up with customer service afterwards had I been you and asked them to refund fare sold as goodwill gesture.
 
Last edited:

Essan

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2017
Messages
518
Location
Evesham / Lochailort
Similar thing happened to me a few years ago after I had too much to drink at the company Christmas party. Instead of getting off at my normal stop, I slept through it and opened my eyes to find myself at a station 4 stops later!

There was nobody on duty at the time, and although there was a ticket machine, I could not get it to work with my card. I took a chance and got on the next train, fortunately there was no ticket inspector on the train. Not sure what would have happened if they caught me - I suppose I can blame the company for putting out unlimited alcohol? :)

Happened to me back in BR days when I was returning to Ipswich after a "lunch meeting" in London. Woke up in Diss ..... Very embarassed.

Not sure if there was a ticket office open in Diss but there was a train back to Ipswich coming in so I just jumped straight on board it and explained, very apologetically, the situation to the guard. His reply was simply "oh, don't worry, it happens all the time!" and I wasn't charged anything.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,540
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Could have, but was under no obligation to.

Does to me come down to the idea that, in my view, if someone as an Authorised Person gives permission to travel without a valid ticket, that that should ALWAYS be in writing.

Then if permission was given outside their authority, it becomes an internal disciplinary matter, not a faff for the passenger.
 

dvboy

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
1,937
Location
Birmingham
That is strange. I would have though it would not have concerned about that as the second leg was not his train, and changes are the second guard would have let you off once you explained you had been over carried. The first guard could have written on your ticket "Please pass to Stafford as over carried." Sign, date, ID number/head code.

Its a shame its not recent as I'd have taken it up with customer service afterwards had I been you and asked them to refund fare sold as goodwill gesture.

To be fair, it was my own fault for getting on the train that didn't stop at Stafford. Thinking about it, he could have sold me a return from Wolves to Stoke, rather than a single from Stoke to Stafford, since my ticket from Wolves to Stafford wasn't valid on his train.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,880
Location
Lancashire
Does to me come down to the idea that, in my view, if someone as an Authorised Person gives permission to travel without a valid ticket, that that should ALWAYS be in writing.

Then if permission was given outside their authority, it becomes an internal disciplinary matter, not a faff for the passenger.

Quite, it would solve all the 'he told me I could' issues at a stroke.
 

47802

Established Member
Joined
8 Oct 2013
Messages
3,455
Seems to me the railway shouldn't be charging for errors like this although the fact they might doesn't surprise me these days.

A few years ago I got on a KX = Kings Lynn by mistake when I should have got a Peterborough Train, I told the staff at Letchworth which was the first Stop and they just said get the next train back to Hitchin.
 

Clipper

New Member
Joined
26 May 2017
Messages
3
Whilst every situation is different (and I would mainly endorse a ticket to allow the passenger to travel back) I have on numerous occasions come across passengers who use the 'I thought this train stopped at X' or 'It was never my intention to go to Y' when they are attempting to short fare.

I remember working a train that had a first calling point over an hour away and the young gentleman concerned had a ticket for a station only 5 minutes away... I explained this to him and he took it a little to calmly for someone now looking at a two hour round trip!!

After endorsing the ticket I noticed he had letters on the table in front of him with a post code situated at our first calling pint! Now I'm not a suspicious creature by nature, but needless to say after a little more questioning his details were taken down with a view to passing them on to our prosecutions team :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top