Stoke to Birmingham and 1st Class Advice

Hi All

I am new to this forum and new to the world of hardened rail commuting. I am trying to understand a number of issues ready for my new route, however the answers I am after are just not out there so I am hoping the experienced commuters can fill me in on the gaps.

I start a new job in Birmingham in a couple of months and whilst I am used to 100 miles a day driving, its just not doable on the M6 in peak period. Therefore I have decided the best option is to train it in and take the hour each way as a part of the working day.

My journey will be 15min drive and park up> 51min train on Cross Country Service> 15min walk and then in reverse for returning.

Firstly some key questions:

1. There are lots of threads on ticket splitting etc, I have looked at every which way to split, re-route, use combination of a rail season ticket and West Midlands public transport ticket etc but nothing appears to be cheaper than just buying a straight forward season ticket from Stoke on Birmingham for £2,980 or £4,560 for first. Can anyone advise otherwise? Do discount codes exist for season tickets?

2. Parking at Stoke station is £1,200 a year season ticket. I cannot see another way around this without having to walk 10 min which I don't want to do on top of the long journey as it is. Any tips?

3. I am not used to rail commuting, however whenever I do in rush hour I usually find the conditions in standard class unsuitable for working professionally. Its cramped, its not nice to talk on the phone with other people so close, and the person next to you is so close you cannot even get your laptop out the bag let alone type on it. Therefore I am thinking only first class will do. Do others agree it needs to be first class to work professionally and productively?

4. So the total cost will be £5,760 first class and parking, therefore I am looking at ways to off-set this. Can I use the first class lounges with the first class season ticket both ends? If so can I take food from these to use as lunch at work and is this food quality or crap? Looking at the Cross Country complementary first class food menu, there does not appear to be anything suitable to take and keep for lunch. Is this food 1 item per person or can I ask for the sausage batch and the granola yogurt, and same for the drinks?

5. I understand wifi is free for Cross Country first class users, is the Wifi reliable and compatible with all devices?

6. When prices go up do I have to pay a supplement on my season ticket at this time or only when its due for renewal?

7. My outbound train options are 07:06, 07:17, 07:44 and 08:07. Return I want to aim for 16:57. Can anyone advise the best option from experience? The ticket office said some are only short trains, does that mean there will not be a first class carriage?

8. Recent news has said there will be a new service by the end of this year from Stoke to Birmingham which will be direct. If this is a different season ticket price where do I stand with my existing ticket? Also if Cross Country lose the contract and the new provider changes things, ie routes or prices which are not in my favour. Again where do I stand with my existing ticket in this circumstance?

9. Finally for employees who do self assessment, have you managed to claim season ticket parking against your earnings? The guidance says necessary expenses in order to carry out your job (but not the regular travelling cost from home to your regular place of work), I do not interpret the parking to be in this terminology. Also for those who have rail tickets though a salary sacrifice scheme, are your employers able to capture the parking season ticket as a part of this? I cannot find clear HMRC guidance on this particularly woolly area.

Many thanks in advance for the responses.

I can't answer all your questions, but once you have paid for a season ticket, there will be no supplement during its period of validity. You only pay more when the current ticket has expitred, and you need to buy a new ticket.

XC Stoke / Birmingham services are worked by 4 or 5 coach Voyagers, and all contain one 1st Class coach.

Most season tickets are normally valid on the services of all train operators, so you would also be able to use London Midland services between Stoke & Stafford, changing there to any service forward to Birmingham (a useful option if a XC train is ever cancelled.) .

If/when LM trains from Crewe/Stoke run through to Birmingham, you should be able to use your season ticket on these trains.

1. If a Stoke<>Wolverhampton and WM All Zones season ticket combination isn't cheaper than Stoke<>Birmingham I don't think anything will be unfortunately.

2. Parking a bit further away from the station in private car parks would be cheaper, but obviously would mean a longer walk.

3. CrossCountry Voyagers are usually rammed on most routes during the day and are almost guaranteed to be full and standing in Standard Class at peak times. If you wish to work on the train I would say First Class is essential.

4. Yes, you can use the lounges at either end, and also at Wolverhampton if you ever needed to travel there/break your journey. Strictly I don't believe you can take food/drink out to consume elsewhere but if it's only a can of Coke and a pack of biscuits you won't be told off. On the train it's always worth asking if you can have anything extra but the First Class Host may not let you, or there may not be enough for the journey ahead (half the trains from Stoke to Birmingham continue to the South Coast).

5. I have found the CrossCountry First Class WiFi usable on mobile device and can't see you having any issues with compatibility unless you're using a handheld console or similar (). Strength of connection may vary wildly day-to-day.

6. No, only when your ticket expires would the price increase affect you when/if you buy another season ticket.

7. If all is going to plan and not horribly wrong, all trains on that route will have a First Class carriage, I think some have two, but maybe not at times you are travelling.

8. As long as your ticket is routed "Any Permitted" you may use it on any operator.

Hope this helps.

At £4,560 a year for a first class season ticket, I would rather rent or house-share in Birmingham than spend two hours a day on a Voyager.

1. Stoke to Birmingham season tickets are excellent value and always have been. Congleton to Birmingham season tickets (Congleton is only 25% further away from Birmingham) are, by comparison, £4616 STD and £10300 1ST, even though there is no first class provision between Congleton and Stoke. A Congleton to Birmingham commuter would be advised to purchase separate tickets between Congleton and Stoke, and Stoke and Birmingham (it being necessary to change trains at Stoke even with a single Congleton to Birmingham ticket). But you are better off purchasing a single Stoke to Birmingham ticket.

2. No parking tips that I know of. Stoke is an awkwardly located station.

3. First class accommodation on the trains operated by CrossCountry is pleasant, standard class is not. It is worth a 50% premium (CrossCountry's premium for most other journeys is 120% - see the Congleton example above - which says a thing or two about how unpleasant standard class is). The free water, tea/coffee, soft drinks and light food items are a nice bonus. The food is limited to one item per journey. You can have as many drinks as you are able to consume during your journey, providing you consistently request them from the member of catering staff.

4. The first class lounge at Stoke is only available to Virgin Trains passengers. Unless you are looking to travel on the one Virgin Trains service each day from Stoke to Birmingham (the 07:06), you are unlikely to be allowed in. The first class lounge at Birmingham New Street is also only available to Virgin Trains passengers. Your ticket is valid on Virgin Trains services between Birmingham and Wolverhampton (there are no Virgin Trains services from Birmingham to Stoke), but whether you can consistently convince the staff members manning the lounge to allow you entry on this basis is not guaranteed. Neither first class lounge has any complimentary items that would be suitable for 'lunch'. The refreshments consist of water, tea/coffee and biscuits.

5. I have no experience of CrossCountry's WiFi.

6. The price you pay for your season ticket is the fixed price for its entire period of validity, whether that be a 1 month season ticket, a 12 month season ticket, or any duration in between.

7. CrossCountry operates 4 and 5 carriage trains. All have 1 first class carriage (and only 1), so as a first class passenger there is no particular train you need to be aiming for. You should never need to stand - it is exceptionally rare for the first class carriage on any CrossCountry train to be full.

8. This third hourly service is to be operated by London Midland from Dec 2018. It is designed to provide a direct service between Birmingham and Stone, Kidsgrove and Alsager. London Midland has very basic first class accommodation (same seats as standard class, no refreshments, etc - basically blinds and a power socket) and the services will be considerably slower than CrossCountry services - possibly even overtaken by them. There is no particular reason why you would want to use these London Midland services to commute between Stoke and Birmingham once they do start operating. But your ticket will be valid on them - a Stoke to Birmingham season ticket is valid on the services of any train company, whether that is CrossCountry, Virgin Trains or London Midland.

9. There is no such thing as a "salary sacrifice scheme" for rail season tickets, let alone station car park season tickets. There is such a thing as interest free loans (in other words, an early advance of taxed salary), offered by certain employers to their employees, and which may also, depending on the employer, cover station car park season tickets. You would need to check the details with your particular employer.

roversfan2001 said:

4. Yes, you can use the lounges at either end, and also at Wolverhampton if you ever needed to travel there/break your journey.

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This is wrong. I know as I regularly commute this route. There is a big sign on the door at Stoke saying passengers intending to travel on CrossCountry can only enter on payment of a £5 supplement, and passengers intending to travel on CrossCountry are consistently turned away by the attendant at the Birmingham New Street first class lounge. Both lounges are Virgin Trains operated and funded wholly by Virgin Trains, so this is not surprising, nor unfair.

Bear in mind that if you travel on the 07:06 Virgin Trains service, you should, providing the catering staff are quick enough (there are approx. 3 first class carriages on this service), be served an excellent full breakfast. Details here: https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/experience/first-class/menu (look at the menu for "Pendolino Trains").

Folks thanks for your excellent and detailed responses, this has been very useful for me indeed.

I kind of anticipated it would have to be first class to ensure a suitable working environment, however I have hardly ever travelled first class and certainly not during the commuting period so I didn't know what to expect. As long as I can get a seat with a vacant one next to me I will be fine. Very pleased to hear the first class does not get too busy, even with just one carriage.

Pleased I can now stop looking for ways to make the fare cheaper now I know there isn't any such combination as I was spending excessive time on this.

I think I am all set to go then and I will just have to figure out the food situation as I get along.

I hate to admit it, but one concern that keeps going through my mind is the complementary breakfast food menu choice, the options are:

Egg bacon & sausage butty
Croissant
Porridge
Yogurt and Granola

At 07:30 in the morning guess which one I am going to keep choosing!! I will need to exercise extreme will power and try and alternate it with the porridge maybe.

The food on the way home is probably a waste for me as it will spoil family dinner, if this is a suitable sandwich maybe I can take this home in a cool bag and then use it the following day for lunch as this would save me £3 per day/£700 pa lunch costs.

Wow that's some menu on the Virgin service, its puts Cross Country to shame! Its a shame 07:06 is the only option which is a tad too early for me.

Try splitting the fare at Stafford. It may be cheaper. There's no real alternative to parking at Stoke. However you could drive to Kidsgrove and park there cheaper, but you would need to change trains at Stoke. However, you may feel the savings are worth it.

I've never been refused entry at either First Class lounge. Rarely challenged, and if you are, explain you are changing onto the Virgin service at Wolverhampton

A final option, depending where in Stoke you are, is actually to go from Crewe. Then you'll have a virgin ticket, and be on virgin trains, who offer more & better food. There is a small car park opposite The Crewe Arms Hotel for £5 a day. I've always got a space, but I don't go very often!

Splitting at Stafford is more expensive and prevents one from travelling on the occasional CrossCountry services that do not call at Stafford.

A Crewe to Birmingham first class season ticket is 1/3 more expensive than a Stoke to Birmingham first class season ticket, given the further distance involved. One also ends up travelling on London Midland more often than not (far inferior to CrossCountry, as described above) - the first Virgin Trains Pendolino from Crewe to Birmingham doesn't arrive in Birmingham until 09:05 (a 08:58 arrival is possible by changing at Wolverhampton, but attempting to eat the full Virgin Trains breakfast in 30 minutes between Crewe and Wolverhampton is not pleasant).

The £5/day car park at Crewe is useful for the occasional traveller (small, and usually full by 10am, but should have spaces more often than not around 8am) but is no cheaper than a station car park season ticket for the daily (or near daily) commuter.

Splitting at Stafford is more expensive and prevents one from travelling on the occasional CrossCountry services that do not call at Stafford.

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I was under the impression that requirement changed when the latest conditions of travel came out, that you could use two season tickets without the train having to call

If my commuter trains into London are anything to go by you won't be able to do any work in Standard. In fact, standard class commuter trains are highly civilised with people reading, sleeping, surfing the netcontemplating the day ahead or the day they've just had. Making a phone call isn't really the done thing and will result in a state from fellow passengers!

As far as your tax return is concerned the cost of travel to or from a permanent place is at your own expense and isn't tax deductible. Many companies do offer interest free season ticket loans.

If you purchase an Annual season ticket and get it issued in Birmingham it should be issued as a Gold Card which gets you a few extra benefits:

34% off after 0930 and Anytime at weekends for you and up to 3 other adults in the Gold Card area (basically London and the South East but the area was enlarged a couple of years ago and now extends to Stafford and covers most of East Anglia). Note not available on Virgin Trains and some Cross Country services.
You can purchase a 16-25, Senior, Two Together or Network Railcard for a friend or relative for £10
You can add the discount to an Oyster PAYG card to get off Peak discounts if travelling in London

Hadders said:

If my commuter trains into London are anything to go by you won't be able to do any work in Standard. In fact, standard class commuter trains are highly civilised with people reading, sleeping, surfing the netcontemplating the day ahead or the day they've just had. Making a phone call isn't really the done thing and will result in a state from fellow passengers!

As far as your tax return is concerned the cost of travel to or from a permanent place is at your own expense and isn't tax deductible.

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And for the avoidance of doubt, this includes the cost of parking at the station.

Kite159 said:

I was under the impression that requirement changed when the latest conditions of travel came out, that you could use two season tickets without the train having to call

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An argument could be made for that, but the rules remain dubious.

Hadders said:

If my commuter trains into London are anything to go by you won't be able to do any work in Standard. In fact, standard class commuter trains are highly civilised with people reading, sleeping, surfing the netcontemplating the day ahead or the day they've just had. Making a phone call isn't really the done thing and will result in a state from fellow passengers!

As far as your tax return is concerned the cost of travel to or from a permanent place is at your own expense and isn't tax deductible. Many companies do offer interest free season ticket loans.

If you purchase an Annual season ticket and get it issued in Birmingham it should be issued as a Gold Card which gets you a few extra benefits:

34% off after 0930 and Anytime at weekends for you and up to 3 other adults in the Gold Card area (basically London and the South East but the area was enlarged a couple of years ago and now extends to Stafford and covers most of East Anglia). Note not available on Virgin Trains and some Cross Country services.
You can purchase a 16-25, Senior, Two Together or Network Railcard for a friend or relative for £10
You can add the discount to an Oyster PAYG card to get off Peak discounts if travelling in London

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I didn't know about this one, so you are saying I should purchase my ticket at New Street and make the season ticket reversed, ie BHam to SOT to get the gold card benefit? I will probably be travelling to London once a month or so in the job so will be of benefit.

Are there any other benefits for further travel in addition to the route covered by the season ticket? I am guessing if I wanted to book a train to London I am better using my season ticket from SOT to Bham and then buying a separate ticket from Bham to Euston (unless its cheaper straight from SOT plus timings etc)

Yes, get the ticket issued at Birmingham and it should come on Gold Card stock (you might have to remind them that it should be a Gold Card rather than normal season ticket stock. It makes no difference whether you get Birmingham-Stoke or Stoke-Birmingham.

If you make frequent trips to London then the Gold Card discount will be useful (but only if you travel after 0930. Virgin don't accept Gold Card discounted tickets but it's worth bearing in mind that there is an excellent service from Moor Street to Marylebone operated by Chiltern Railways that is cheaper than Virgin, only takes a little longer but accepts Gold Card discounted tickets.

As far as I can tell Stoke on Trent to Birmingham is valid via Tamworth so if you wanted to travel on a direct train from Stoke to Euston you could simply buy a Tamworth-London ticket. Your season ticket would cover the Stoke-Tamworth part of the journey. As you'd have a season ticket there'd be no requirement for the train to call at Tamworth where you change from one ticket to the other.