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Will Manchester ever see later night departures

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Confused147

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Last trains home are around 23:30 from Manchester Picc/Vic but if you live in London you've got the benefit of local departures at 02:00 home after a night out.

I don't want to hear 'Theres more demand in London' because that is tosh. People in Manchester would use them instead of paying £60 taxi home. But hmmm lets see what the May 2018 timetable brings :p
 
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Wilts Wanderer

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One difference that I imagine has an impact is that even main routes out of Manchester are generally 2-track railways, rather than 4 (Piccadilly-Stockport being the notable exception.) Whereas the London main lines are maintained on a 2-track railway basis, which leaves generally sufficient capacity for late night traffic, to maintain double-line routes you generally need a total closure, otherwise when would maintenance be undertaken?
 

EM2

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Last trains home are around 23:30 from Manchester Picc/Vic but if you live in London you've got the benefit of local departures at 02:00 home after a night out.
From where?
Nothing at 2am out of Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, King's Cross or Euston. There's Thameslink, but that's about it.
 

kevconnor

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Additionally Manchester does have some services run through the night via Piccadilly to the Airport from around some of the northern cities, I think Sheffield, Leeds/York, Liverpool, Chester & Preston/Blackpool may each have late night or early morning services. Admittedly however they are quite sporadic and mainly aimed at travellers to/from the Airport.
 

Bletchleyite

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From where?
Nothing at 2am out of Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, King's Cross or Euston. There's Thameslink, but that's about it.

There's an 0134 out of Euston other than on Saturdays. It isn't heavily used other than on a Friday (being one of those trains for which 4 coaches are more than enough) but it is very useful when you need it. The unit doesn't go to bed, it goes back south as the 0317 (I think) from MKC.

On Saturdays there's a long-term late-on replacement bus service[1] after the last train at 0015, though it basically takes most of the night if you're going to MKC.

[1] Actually I think 4 buses with different stopping patterns.
 
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Hadders

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Last departure from Kings Cross is the 0135 to Peterborough. Upon arrival it forms the first service towards London at 0325.
 

Chester1

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From where?
Nothing at 2am out of Victoria, Waterloo, Charing Cross, King's Cross or Euston. There's Thameslink, but that's about it.

Yes and the night tube only runs two nights a week. Metrolink run 21 hours a day every day from Firswood to the Airport. I think there are plans to run them from the city centre at somepoint.

Additionally Manchester does have some services run through the night via Piccadilly to the Airport from around some of the northern cities, I think Sheffield, Leeds/York, Liverpool, Chester & Preston/Blackpool may each have late night or early morning services. Admittedly however they are quite sporadic and mainly aimed at travellers to/from the Airport.

TPE and Northern run some very limited services from Manchester Airport to Piccadilly but none between 1am and 3:30am go further and there are no services between midnight and 5am to Bolton, Preston or Sheffield. Chester has a service from Piccadilly at 00:50 but it does not run Saturday night because it would be a Sunday service which is pretty stupid when you consider it is well loaded the rest of the week! If services were introduced something like Victoria-Ashton/Bolton/Wigan/Stockport would be a huge improvement reducing taxis costs home. I think Piccadilly should close overnight though, its a waste to have a massive station open 24/7 and the Ordsall Chord provides the oppertunity to use Victoria for any night trains or trams (and buses too).
 

Jamesrob637

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Does Manchester to Stockport need night trains when you have the 192 bus running every half an hour until 04:30 and serving places such as Heaton Chapel and Levenshulme?
 
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There used to be either an 0020 or 0120 Manchester - Sheffield TPE service which was semi-popular. Presume it stopped running because having a unit stable overnight in Sheffield station after ferrying drunk people back from Manchester probably wasn't ideal...
 

Bald Rick

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Not sure which part of Manchester you would be going to in order to pay £60 for a taxi home.

Meanwhile, in Birmingham, aside from the last couple of Euston services heading to Wolverhampton, there is only one service after 2332, and that is the 2354 Coventry.


Perhaps it is that last trains around 2300/2330 is the norm, and that the fact that London is a world city with nearly 15m people living within the metropolitan area, means the last trains to a few of the very busiest destinations go a little later?


(In London, most last trains are around midnight, with a small number after that, and very few after 0030.)
 

MidnightFlyer

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Meanwhile, in Birmingham, aside from the last couple of Euston services heading to Wolverhampton, there is only one service after 2332, and that is the 2354 Coventry.

And on the Snow Hill side, just the 2330 to Banbury and a 2334 to Whitlocks End. Very little in Birmingham that would necessitate anything into the small hours - most sport, arts and other social outings are likely done by 2300, and for the livelier side of the city's nightlife, anything before 0300 or so is too early!

I note that when big events are on at the NEC / Genting complex at Birmingham International, the 2143 Euston-Wolves is booked to be held there until roughly 2315~ to mop up punters and get people back north.
 

Chester1

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Not sure which part of Manchester you would be going to in order to pay £60 for a taxi home.

Meanwhile, in Birmingham, aside from the last couple of Euston services heading to Wolverhampton, there is only one service after 2332, and that is the 2354 Coventry.


Perhaps it is that last trains around 2300/2330 is the norm, and that the fact that London is a world city with nearly 15m people living within the metropolitan area, means the last trains to a few of the very busiest destinations go a little later?


(In London, most last trains are around midnight, with a small number after that, and very few after 0030.)

Victoria to Stockport cost me £13 through Uber a couple of weeks ago. The night buses only run Friday and Saturday nights. Until they run every night to at least one place in the other 9 boroughs of Greater Manchester a late night train service is unlikely. The recent devolution of power over the bus system will probably introduce some bus services every night. A night Metrolink service could be introduced much quicker than a train service because the CA and Mayor have control over Metrolink but have limited influence over Northern and TPE. If it is profitable GM would keep the revanue too! A simple network of 4tph from Airport to Victoria and then 2tph to Bury and Oldham would benefit a huge chunk of the city. A taxis from an Airport line stop to Altrincham or from Oldham to Rochdale would be much cheaper than a taxis the whole way.
 

MontyP

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Even in this part of SW London, the service after midnight is quite patchy - there are only 7 departures after midnight from Waterloo. Particularly for the inner suburbans this is poor in comparison with the tube and even worse vs night tube on Fri / Sat nights. The last train to Kingston is 2357 which can be a rush to catch after a meal or drinks in the West End (which requires a tube journey to Waterloo first).
 

craigwilson

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Not sure which part of Manchester you would be going to in order to pay £60 for a taxi home.

Those of us in Buxton or futher out than Hazel Grove e.g Disley, New Mills etc, have to suffer hefty taxi fares - £60 for all the way to Buxton, slightly less in an Uber.

An extra late train (even if just Friday and Saturday evenings only) around midnight would be very well received round these parts.
 

Chester1

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Those of us in Buxton or futher out than Hazel Grove e.g Disley, New Mills etc, have to suffer hefty taxi fares - £60 for all the way to Buxton, slightly less in an Uber.

An extra late train (even if just Friday and Saturday evenings only) around midnight would be very well received round these parts.

The same could be said of any station within an hour of any major city. The network needs to have some down time. Any night service from Manchester would be the result of a push by Greater Manchester CA and therefore would be unlikely to go outside its borders. Stalybridge to Wigan via Victoria and Bolton could be squeezed into an hour and therefore an hourly service could be run with two sets of doubled up sprinters. Rochdale to Hazel Grove all stops could be comfortable timed within an hour. That very basic service would still require 8 sprinters, 4 drivers, 4 conductors, station staff at main stations and a police presence.
 

johntea

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£60 for a taxi? At that price I would just be looking around for a cheap hotel room for the night!
 

sjoh

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My last train is at 0103, which I think must make it one of the latest inner london suburban services. -smug grin-
 

higthomas

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Victoria used to have an hourly service to Three Bridges? Do these still run?

They were cancelled a couple of months ago to try and allow more engineering time what with the rather poor state of the infrastructure around there.
 
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NorthernSpirit

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I've often thought the same for Leeds and West Yorkshire. OK, there is the TPE services but other than that there isn't owt else.

Should WYCA decide to take some elements from the GM area over late night departures, then I do imagine that Metro would look at subsidising something that would use a handful of units so the Skipton's and Ilkley's would somehow be worked with a single unit, the same would probably apply for something to Todmorden via Wakefield and maybe something for Pontefract and Denby Dale.
 

nw1

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Last departure from Kings Cross is the 0135 to Peterborough. Upon arrival it forms the first service towards London at 0325.

Surprised there's much demand for an 0325 service to London (or the similar 0317 from Milton Keynes) - I guess it's for those people unfortunate enough to have to start work in London at 0500 or thereabouts. 0300 to 0400 is definitely what I'd call the "depth of night" hour above all others!

Traditionally first trains to London from the bigger "NSE" stations have, IIRC, been 0500 or so, is this a sign employers are becoming more demanding with their hours compared to the old days?

Or maybe it's to allow people to catch early flights at Heathrow or Gatwick?
 
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Bletchleyite

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Having used that train it appeared to be mostly LU staff, though I was indeed myself using it to reach Gatwick for a crack of dawn flight. It's existed for years, I think before that there was a genuine all night service on the south WCML.
 

route101

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Could say the same about Glasgow . Last train for me is 2318 which i find too early , there is a 0018 on Fridays only but theres no 2348 which would relieve pressure on it . And this should run on Saturday night too
 
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