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GWR Class 800

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Tim R-T-C

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GWR insist that coaches A and G are quiet coaches, but there is no mention of this on board. I'm surprised they couldn't manage to put some stickers up before the trains entered service.

The kitchen(s) is(are) much too large on 5(10) car trains, and it remains disappointing that it is not possible to walk between the two units on 10 car trains.

Perhaps they are going to do away with the silliness of quiet coaches, would be better than the self-enforced nature of them at present.

As for moving between units, the only way this woyld be possible would be via a completely different nose design which would preclude high speed running.
 
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AlterEgo

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Perhaps they are going to do away with the silliness of quiet coaches, would be better than the self-enforced nature of them at present.

As for moving between units, the only way this woyld be possible would be via a completely different nose design which would preclude high speed running.

Quiet coaches are total nonsense from a commercial perspective. There's no evidence I've seen that they increase ridership, and here's what a typical complaint looks like:

Someone with nothing better to do on TripAdvisor said:
Quiet Carriage is anything but

If you want a quiet, peaceful journey between Swansea and London, choose any carriage except the Quiet Carriage. Never in my life have I been subjected to so much incessant "pinging" of old people sending text messages. One guy even listened to 5 Live.

I have requested a refund from Great Western as I believe them to be in breach of contract.


https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowU...reat_Western_Railway_GWR-London_England.html#

Even though he will have got the round total of £0 back, it generated ill will, a complaint, and it'll have to be handled. It'll probably have cost GWR about £20 to deal with this chap, which might be more than he paid in the first place!

Bin all Quiet Carriages, like XC did. It's a service that, quite simply, cannot be guaranteed.
 

Bletchleyite

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Happy with that idea, but to replace it how about notices in all coaches saying...

Please...
- Put your phone on silent/vibrate and consider others when you have a conversation
- Don't play music, movies or TV shows out loud - use headphones

Thank you.
 

jimm

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One possible solution when the wires are live for passenger services is for GWR to run a couple "Reading Commuter Expresses" using trios of 387s to try and soak up some of the commuters so they don't have to stand on the IETs

GWR is just waiting for the electrification to Didcot to go live to shake up the service.

From January 2 there is a pretty thorough recast of peak commuter trains - in part with the aim of giving Reading passengers high-capacity fast services into London that start in the Thames Valley region, rather than being full of passengers from further west - something which has not been possible with the current rolling stock fleet, bar the odd short HST working.

There will be seven Class 1 services worked by Class 387s starting at Didcot and heading to Paddington between 06.01 and 08.10 on weekday mornings, including an 07.30, calling at Reading only at 07.49 and into Paddington at 08.20. Most of the rest call all stations to Reading, then at Twyford and Maidenhead before switching from the reliefs to the main lines at Maidenhead to run non-stop to Paddington. These are a bit slower than HST/IET times, but no slouches, about 35 minutes from Reading to Paddington being the typical running time.

If most of them are 12-car formations then they should be an attractive alternative to long-distance services, especially if the Reading commuters really do want seats to sit on, as they have been saying for years.
 

jimm

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Excellent. Now, what do all the naysayers say to that?

It still doesn't amount to a segregated/expresses whizzing past service like Milton Keynes - most long-distance trains will continue to call at Reading but the 387 services should help to spread out the loads, assuming that a good few commuters work out that heading to platform 15 will work out nicely for them, rather than joining the throng on 10 and 11. Hopefully they won't all get wise to it though, otherwise there will be complaints from Twyford and Maidenhead about their fast London trains being full of Reading passengers...
 

Bletchleyite

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It's a start. If, as I said, Crossrail kills HEx off (which I think it well could), that's 4 more fast paths - then implementing pick up/set down restrictions at least in the peaks may well be workable.

(Those peak only restrictions work reasonably well on the WCML - OK, the odd passenger knows which trains stop and gets away with it southbound[1], but they aren't the problem, the main aim of keeping overcrowding off the VTs is still achieved).

[1] You are unlikely to get away with it northbound as manual barrier checks are done on most trains these days. Automated barriers at Euston seem still confined to P1-3. Southbound there is no real way to control it bar shouting at people like they do at Watford; you can't block P4 as P3 is the main northbound slow platform.
 

Kite159

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It's a start. If, as I said, Crossrail kills HEx off (which I think it well could), that's 4 more fast paths - then implementing pick up/set down restrictions at least in the peaks may well be workable.

(Those peak only restrictions work reasonably well on the WCML - OK, the odd passenger knows which trains stop and gets away with it southbound[1], but they aren't the problem, the main aim of keeping overcrowding off the VTs is still achieved).

[1] You are unlikely to get away with it northbound as manual barrier checks are done on most trains these days. Automated barriers at Euston seem still confined to P1-3. Southbound there is no real way to control it bar shouting at people like they do at Watford; you can't block P4 as P3 is the main northbound slow platform.

I can still see a purpose of HEX, more part of the passenger experience for the airport of being able to board a fast service from Paddington where they can board up to 15 minutes before departure. Compared to a crowded underground platform waiting for a Lizzie Line service which is going to Heathrow to have a short dwell time and probably be standing for a short distance as the train calls at the likes of Ealing, emptying out on route. Not the best experience for tourists. Maybe even when Heathrow Express itself no longer exists having EMUs on express services from Paddington at the same fares as the "stopper" might also help crowding.

Anyhow back on topic, alas I decided against going out again tonight for the 800 moves, I will get them at some point this month.
 

jimm

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It's a start. If, as I said, Crossrail kills HEx off (which I think it well could), that's 4 more fast paths - then implementing pick up/set down restrictions at least in the peaks may well be workable.

Heathrow Express has a track access agreement until 2023 and unless someone gives them shedload of money to stop, I can't see any way BAA will drop the service before then. There are plenty of cases where there are airport expresses and other services between a city and an airport and the cheaper options have not put the airport services out of business.

Nor would four more paths to Reading necessarily provide the capacity required for all the Redding traffic - the GWML post-Crossrail will be a very different place from the WCML so I'm not convinced thing to compare the two situations makes sense.

How about just waiting to see what happens once the full modified GWR service pattern is in place from the end of next year and Crossrail reaches Reading in 2019 before going on about trying to stop Reading passengers from using long-distance trains, especially when the aggro that would cause is pretty obvious.
 

coppercapped

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It's a start. If, as I said, Crossrail kills HEx off (which I think it well could), that's 4 more fast paths - then implementing pick up/set down restrictions at least in the peaks may well be workable.

(Those peak only restrictions work reasonably well on the WCML - OK, the odd passenger knows which trains stop and gets away with it southbound[1], but they aren't the problem, the main aim of keeping overcrowding off the VTs is still achieved).

[1] You are unlikely to get away with it northbound as manual barrier checks are done on most trains these days. Automated barriers at Euston seem still confined to P1-3. Southbound there is no real way to control it bar shouting at people like they do at Watford; you can't block P4 as P3 is the main northbound slow platform.
We've had this this discussion previously! Although I agree with the concept of keeping the longer distance and shorter flows separated, in practice it is not easy.

Firstly, some numbers. Using the ORR figures, Reading has, roundly, 16 million entrances and exits annually and some 4 million interchanges, while Milton Keynes has 7 million entrances and exits and less than 500,000 interchanges. So Reading has more than twice the number of entrances and exits and 8 times the number of interchanges - managing these flows and keeping people off those non-stop services to and from London which start from further afield will be very difficult. A large number of people interchanging arrive at Reading from different routes (Basingstoke, Newbury, Didcot, Oxford and Wokingham) - a situation which does not exist at a station on a linear route such as MK - and expect to get to London quickly. Why should they be banned from the fast trains?

What works at a smallish station such as Milton Keynes may not work at a busy interchange such as Reading.

There are also implementation issues. At Paddington Platform 1 is ungated as are 8 and 9 as all these offer a route from Praed Street / The Lawn to the Hammersmith & City and Circle Line platforms at the west end of the station. Unless a fenced-off route is created these platforms will remain ungated. The gateline for Platforms 2 to 5 (and potentially 6 and 7 if HEx ceases to operate) feed all the platforms in the group, so it will be very difficult to keep a passenger for Reading off a Plymouth service if this leaves a few minutes before a Reading-only service from a nearby platform. Similarly the higher number platforms, 10 to 14, are also, essentially, treated as another group.

At Reading, the fast services coming from further west leave from Platforms 10 and 11, the two sides of an island which is reached by stairs and escalators from both sides of the overbridge and by lifts equidistant between the two sets of escalators and stairs. The layout may be seen here. I cannot see how any form of access control to these platforms can be introduced at bridge level without throttling the flow of passengers across the bridge. And how can one restrict travel? A ticket to London is a ticket to London and is, subject to any time restrictions, valid on any train - if restrictions according to train type are introduced then the much vaunted 'walk-up' railway will fade away.

The key to limiting demand on the non-stop trains is to increase the number of seats on offer at the peak times. From January next year the number of Class 387 services running non-stop, or limited stop, from Reading to London will increase significantly by starting them back from Didcot as posted by Jimm a couple of posts ago. Persuasion is the key to keeping people happy, not coercion which only increases the number of discontents.
 

Oxfordblues

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How well have the 800s ran over the past two days? Any problems?
I took a ride today on the 12:12 Reading to Bristol Parkway and it was excellent: the ride was smooth, the seating firm but comfortable*, the ambience relaxing, little underfloor noise and instant-access wifi. Departure was 1 early at public time, arrival Swindon 4 early and at Bristol Parkway 3 early. No complaints from me!
(* if not, why not bring your own cushion?)
 

class387

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I took a ride today on the 12:12 Reading to Bristol Parkway and it was excellent: the ride was smooth, the seating firm but comfortable*, the ambience relaxing, little underfloor noise and instant-access wifi. Departure was 1 early at public time, arrival Swindon 4 early and at Bristol Parkway 3 early. No complaints from me!
(* if not, why not bring your own cushion?)
Don't worry, I'm 100% for firm seating! :D

Glad to see there have no further issues.
 

Mag_seven

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I had my first run today as well - echo everyone else's comments on this and other threads. One thing I did notice was the braking - very effective. Suggest drivers will have to use that brake handle gently!
 

RP

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I had my first run today as well - echo everyone else's comments on this and other threads. One thing I did notice was the braking - very effective. Suggest drivers will have to use that brake handle gently!
Likewise, I travelled from Newport to Bristol Parkway on a Class 800 today for the first time, and echo others' comments.

The train seemed light and airy inside the saloons and I was surprised to see pull-down window blinds. The seats are firm - and took me by surprise when I sat down expecting a softer landing, but I thought the back support seemed good. The seats seemed slightly higher too and more upright; the return journey by Mk3 was very different. Seat reservations are clear with green for available and red for reserved. Slightly more engine noise than I expected, but it was acceptable.

And much less noise on departure than a Class 220 Voyager, which I heard soon afterwards. Good first impression!
 

ikcdab

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I should probably plough back through all 276 pages of this thread....but where do I find which services the 800s are on? Planing a trip on them next week.
Thanks
 

gwr4090

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My personal hope is that Crossrail obsoletes Heathrow Express to the extent that it is completely withdrawn. The 4 fast line paths per hour (and potentially the EMUs themselves - or maybe 350/2s?) could then be used to operate 10 or 12-car non-stop (or calling at Slough/Maidenhead) EMU services to Reading, and Reading<->Paddington passengers banned entirely from all long distance services, at least at peak times.

That approach has really worked quite well to manage capacity involving Milton Keynes Central (though only in the peaks) and I think Reading would do well to duplicate it if the paths could be found.

Interestingly that it was proposed in a previsous GWML utilisation strategy to replace HEX by a fast Paddington-Heathrow-Slough-Reading-Basingstoke service. This would give fast connections to Heathrow from across GW and SW territory. This might yet happen in due course but I dont think it would be a premium service.
 
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Sheepy1209

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Happened to be in Swansea on business so hopped on one to Port Talbot Parkway. As a regular Pendolino user the contrast is quite stark; the interior is uncluttered, nice big windows, and plenty of elbow room on the window side. More noise than I expected but still refined, and becomes very muted at cruising speed, though of course I wasn't on a fast stretch.

Seats are firm but for me not at all uncomfortable, I find legroom more important and that's excellent. The seats are nothing like the horrible class 700 and 345 planks. Besides, I hate the seats in GWR HST's, far too high backed.
Reservations weren't working and they'd put out paper ones, but the system came to life as the train started. The traffic light system is excellent, and the displays while small are far easier to read than the Pendolino equivalent.

In a way first impressions remind me of when the 175s were new - a very plain, restrained and airy interior making for a less stressful experience especially when boarding. The lighting, though, is far too bright - one of the few things where I prefer the Pendolino.
 

PaxmanValenta

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Likewise, I travelled from Newport to Bristol Parkway on a Class 800 today for the first time, and echo others' comments.

The train seemed light and airy inside the saloons and I was surprised to see pull-down window blinds. The seats are firm - and took me by surprise when I sat down expecting a softer landing, but I thought the back support seemed good. The seats seemed slightly higher too and more upright; the return journey by Mk3 was very different. Seat reservations are clear with green for available and red for reserved. Slightly more engine noise than I expected, but it was acceptable.

And much less noise on departure than a Class 220 Voyager, which I heard soon afterwards. Good first impression!

Did all the seats line up with windows? Or do we have the Voyager problem with many seats having no window view?
 

AlexNL

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Probably an interim one on the way to full DOO. But even so not allowing the guard *local* door control is bizarre.

To the UK it might be, here in the Netherlands it's standard practice.

The driver releases the doors, the guard closes them - first all other doors, lastly their local door. Guards do not have any panels to release doors, if they want doors to be reopened they ask the driver over radio.

Heathrow Express has a track access agreement until 2023 and unless someone gives them shedload of money to stop, I can't see any way BAA will drop the service before then. There are plenty of cases where there are airport expresses and other services between a city and an airport and the cheaper options have not put the airport services out of business.
Take Stockholm for example.

Arlanda Airport is served by 3 operators: Arlanda's own Arlanda Express, SL's Pendeltåg (commuter trains), and longer distance services operated by SJ. AE is the most expensive options, but it's also the fastest. SL and SJ are cheaper, but slower.
 

Bletchleyite

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And how can one restrict travel? A ticket to London is a ticket to London and is, subject to any time restrictions, valid on any train

Not valid on any train which is not offered as a service from Reading to London, just as tickets from Watford Junction to London are not valid on VT services. It's not like this is a new thing.

In reality with the WCML there is near no enforcement - they are just missed off on a journey planner search and from the PIS (and southbound at Watford/MKC say DO NOT BOARD). The odd member of staff might shout a bit or question why someone is waiting on a given platform on occasions. That is enough to get enough people to "behave" to ensure the ICs are not swamped with commuters - if the odd one gets away with it, so what?
 

All Line Rover

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Bin all Quiet Carriages, like XC did.

Pedant note: XC's HSTs still have them, the official line being that the Voyagers don't have the capacity to support them, rather than the concept itself being at fault. Not that "our trains are so overcrowded we need to withdraw facility x" is a good line to spin to the media, which is why press releases at the time were worded creatively.

Back to the class 800s...
 
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