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December 2017 Timetable

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43074

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https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/seat-boost-to-virgins-east-coast-mainline-service

Here's the link for anyone who wants to read more

I wonder how they have enough trains to do this? Have they just cut back on maintenance now that the Azumas are coming in soon?

Not sure but given the currently precarious position of the franchise I don't know why they want to run their quietest services on a weekday (the Newarks) on the quietest day of the week overall... by all means run a few York stoppers and take calls at Newark/Retford out of the xx30 departures from Kings Cross (xx00 from Edinburgh), but why they're running the Newark stoppers I have no idea. Where they will get the stock & crew from for this is a mystery, as is how they can afford it.
 
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Starmill

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Leeds already has 2tph on Saturday, most of which was only introduced in the last year (and most of that only this may).

As far as I can see, the increase is based predominantly around the following from York:

0438
1003
1203
1405
1602
1802

The 0438 is new throughout on Saturdays, replacing the 0505 from Leeds as the current first service.

And in opposing hours, originating at Newark North Gate:

1154
1354
1552
1754

Excellent!
 
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43074

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Haven't looked yet but does anyone know what extra services are going to be run on Saturdays?

Leeds already has 2tph on Saturday, most of which was only introduced in the last year (and most of that only this may).

Judging by RTT they will be running the York and Newark semi-fast services on Saturday, bringing the Saturday timetable in line with the weekday off peak timetable.
 

Starmill

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The 0725 Newcastle to London Kings Cross also starts back from Edinburgh on Saturdays at 0548, moving the earliest arrival into London forward to 1039 from the current 1055.

Worth noting that this train calls at Morpeth at 0710, forming the new first service from Morpeth to Newcastle on a Saturday, brought forward by 33 minutes!

1E03 leaves Edinburgh 6 minutes later at 0626 and arrives at London Kings Cross 5 minutes earlier at 1050.
 
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Failed Unit

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Not sure but given the currently precarious position of the franchise I don't know why they want to run their quietest services on a weekday (the Newarks) on the quietest day of the week overall... by all means run a few York stoppers and take calls at Newark/Retford out of the xx30 departures from Kings Cross (xx00 from Edinburgh), but why they're running the Newark stoppers I have no idea. Where they will get the stock & crew from for this is a mystery, as is how they can afford it.

Considering they are paying for the stock anyway that will make no difference. But Saturday traffic from Newark south is actually very busy lots of day trippers. I am sure they will tap into new demand. If it will cover costs / make profit that is another story.
 

xotGD

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Considering they are paying for the stock anyway that will make no difference. But Saturday traffic from Newark south is actually very busy lots of day trippers. I am sure they will tap into new demand. If it will cover costs / make profit that is another story.
Day-tripping cranks out to sample the Class 90!
 

Solent&Wessex

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Judging from lack of progress noted last week between Bolton and Salford I don't see the 07.22 Crewe-Bolton going electric at the timetable change - and have my doubts about the February diversion of TPE services.

The word internally is that Network Rail have moved the completion date to the May 2018 timetable, but even that is looking dicey apparently.
 

Starmill

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It isn't looking fantastic on the ground, unhappily :(

There has still been insistence from some quarters, even recently, that it will be ready some time in December though.
 

mikestone1952

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The extra Harrogate-Leeds trains, previously showing a March start date, have disappeared, as have numerous trains on the Sheffield-Retford/Lincoln route suggesting they are in the process of moving the start date of the Sheffield-Retford stoppers back to May.
;
I'm fairly sure it was a franchise commitment to run the Virgin East Coast semi-fasts on Saturdays.
 

mikestone1952

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Papers for Greater Manchester Combined Authority
https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...d/2510/item_06_local_rail_service_performance
refer to an additional 21.10 Manchester Airport-Glasgow - since all the other references are to xx.10, presumably should read 21.00.
They also confirm that there will be no electrics via Bolton in December and state that the postponed changes, including TPE diversion via Bolton, are unlikely to take place until May due to "industry planning timescales" which seems rather dubious given that timings had been published.
Is the truth that Northern haven't got the staff and never would have had?
 

dk1

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By the looks of things, XC have introduced catering on selected services beyond the core to Aberdeen & Penzance.
 

3270

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CrossCountry have put their December to May timetables up here: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/travel-updates-information/train-timetables
I know the big changes got shouted down at consultation, but anyone want to pore through them and see if anything's changed? :D

Here's a couple of changes...
Mon-Fri
1900 Glasgow - Newcastle is extended to York. Departs Newcastle 2136, Durham 2150, Darlington 2209 and arrives York 2235.
0735 Newcastle - Glasgow starts from York at 0625 calling at Darlington 0655 and Durham 0713.
 

Bovverboy

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Papers for Greater Manchester Combined Authority
https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...d/2510/item_06_local_rail_service_performance
refer to an additional 21.10 Manchester Airport-Glasgow - since all the other references are to xx.10, presumably should read 21.00.

Yes, it does seem strange that the Scottish services should be shown departing Manchester Airport at xx.10, and the York/Newcastle as xx.00 (rather than xx.06). Perhaps the xx.00 is the proposed 'post-Ordsall Chord' time for the York/Newcastles, and the Scottish are going to be moved to xx.10 in consequence.
Of the supposed new December journeys, a return Airport-Glasgow has actually been running since May ('1910' NS ex-Airport - as 1858 - and '1845' NSSu/1906Su ex-Glasgow - as 1847/1906). The proposed '1910' S Airport-Edinburgh is showing on RTT as 1858, and the '2230' NSSu Edinburgh-Airport as 2215 (terminating at Manchester Piccadilly on Wednesdays). The '2010' Su Airport-Edinburgh, and '2110' NSSu Airport-Glasgow are not showing at all, although the ECS working to Craigentinny, off the '2010', has been showing for a while. There are also notable differences between what is said to be proposed for Sunday mornings compared to the information we already have in hand.

They also confirm that there will be no electrics via Bolton in December and state that the postponed changes, including TPE diversion via Bolton, are unlikely to take place until May due to "industry planning timescales" which seems rather dubious given that timings had been published.
Is the truth that Northern haven't got the staff and never would have had?

May I ask - Northern haven't got the staff to do what?
 

darloscott

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Good to see the 1922 Liverpool-York TPE extended through to Middlesbrough from December, arriving at 2232, and a new 2250 Middlesbrough-York. Gives a later option back to our area for days out etc.
 

Bovverboy

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Turning Manchester Victoria into a predominantly through running station to increase capacity was & is a good idea.

With platforms 3-6 being through running, any passengers arriving or departing platforms 4-6 need to climb the footbridge or use the lifts to transfer to/from the concourse. Were platforms 3/4 terminal, only passengers using platform 6 would need to use the bridge/lifts. Even now, a fair proportion of the trains using platforms 3-6 seem to return from whence they came. Running through trains isn't always a good thing.

In that context, electrifying 3 of the 4 lines west of the station before electrifying either of those to the east seemed somewhat odd.

To where do you suggest trains should operate, from (electrified) platforms 1/2?
 
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Bovverboy

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Sticking with Sunday the full compliment of 2Mxx services from Leeds to Manchester Oxford Road and 2Exx from Manchester Oxford Road to Leeds are now uploaded.

This may mean that if the infrastructure is complete we can deduce that the first passenger service to use the Ordsall Chord will be the 0908 Leeds to Manchester Oxford Road, calling at all stations to Todmorden, then Littleborough, Rochdale, Manchester Victoria, Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road :o

I think there'a possibility that the first passenger services to use the chord will be the TPE services which currently reverse at Salford Crescent, but which aren't booked to call there.
 

lejog

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With platforms 3-6 being through running, any passengers arriving or departing platforms 4-6 need to climb the footbridge or use the lifts to transfer to/from the concourse. Were platforms 3/4 terminal, only passengers using platform 6 would need to use the bridge/lifts. Even now, a fair proportion of the trains using platforms 3-6 seem to return from whence they came. Running through trains isn't always a good thing.
This is way off topic, there's been enough discussion of the Northern Hub over the years. Yes passengers may have to cross the bridge for through trains departing platforms 4-6 at Victoria and walk to platforms 13-14 at Piccadilly. Yes there are still many terminating services because the new Hub-based timetable only starts May 2018.
To where do you suggest trains should operate, from (electrified) platforms 1/2?
Oddly enough having caught a train from Platform 1 this evening, I can safely say its not electrified. I would have thought it pointless to electrify the east facing bays now as electrification is going to finish a couple of 100m east of the station. I don't suggest any trains should operate from the platforms, although the cancellation of electrification means that Northern are running a hourly Victoria to Stalybridge shuttle from May 2018 which may use the bays, all other services from the east will run through from then.
 

mikestone1952

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Yes, it does seem strange that the Scottish services should be shown departing Manchester Airport at xx.10, and the York/Newcastle as xx.00 (rather than xx.06). Perhaps the xx.00 is the proposed 'post-Ordsall Chord' time for the York/Newcastles, and the Scottish are going to be moved to xx.10 in consequence.
Of the supposed new December journeys, a return Airport-Glasgow has actually been running since May ('1910' NS ex-Airport - as 1858 - and '1845' NSSu/1906Su ex-Glasgow - as 1847/1906). The proposed '1910' S Airport-Edinburgh is showing on RTT as 1858, and the '2230' NSSu Edinburgh-Airport as 2215 (terminating at Manchester Piccadilly on Wednesdays). The '2010' Su Airport-Edinburgh, and '2110' NSSu Airport-Glasgow are not showing at all, although the ECS working to Craigentinny, off the '2010', has been showing for a while. There are also notable differences between what is said to be proposed for Sunday mornings compared to the information we already have in hand.



May I ask - Northern haven't got the staff to do what?
Train crew to operate the additional trains to Retford and Harrogate. Since the times have appeared and disappeared presumably the actual planning isn't a problem.
;
TPE advise that the later Manchester Airport-Glasgow is 21.03 and the problem is timing it into Glasgow Central.
 
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mikestone1952

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I think there'a possibility that the first passenger services to use the chord will be the TPE services which currently reverse at Salford Crescent, but which aren't booked to call there.
There is a rather odd 08.40 Manchester Victoria-Manchester Oxford Road on Sundays, which will presumably be the first train, baring the above.
 

MidnightFlyer

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XC calls at Morpeth are ramped up:

SX:
0632 Dundee-Plymouth (calls at 0924);
0609 Bath Spa-Glasgow Central (1151);
0925 Plymouth-Aberdeen (1648);
1707 Edinburgh-Bristol TM (1824).

Saturday:
0615 Bristol TM-Glasgow Central (1147);
1100 Glasgow Central-Penzance (1318);
1300 Glasgow Central-Plymouth (1521);
0925 Plymouth-Aberdeen (1645).

Sunday:
0921 Sheffield-Glasgow Central (1144);
1110 Aberdeen-Plymouth (1520);
1348 Glasgow Central-Plymouth (1622);
0925 Plymouth-Glasgow Central (1741);
1655 Glasgow Central-Birmingham NS (1923).

Couple the latter with the introduction of Northern locals and Morpeth goes from 16 departures on a Sunday to 29!
 
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