09:10 London Euston - Holyhead: "This train has been delayed by a fire on a train"

Y Ddraig Coch · 21 Oct 2017

Looking at live local departures as there are many and long delays in North Wales due to storm Brian and other issues today.

I came across 1D83 Virgin Trains Service from 09.10 - London Euston to Holyhead

Was running pretty much on time until Crewe and is now 60 min late leaving Llandudno Junction due to

Service updates

This train has been delayed by a fire on a train

Does anyone have any info on where and what train the fire was on ? Serious or not?

RailUK Forums

Welshman · 21 Oct 2017

I noticed earlier today that some Chester-Crewe shuttles were cancelled due to "the fire brigade in attendance"
So I assume it was somewhere between Crewe and Chester, as that reason was not given for late-running/cancelled west-coast services through Crewe.

I can't find any more details about the fire, but, along with Brian, and other VTs experiencing "issues with the traction equipment", it's not a good day for the NW Coast line.

LNW-GW Joint · 21 Oct 2017

NRE said early on that the fire brigade were "dealing with an incident", which might be anything from flooding or a bridge strike to a train fire or tree down.
Advice was conflicting, with Arriva passengers told to go via Warrington, and Virgin told to wait for a bus.
I think one up VT must have diverted via Middlewich, because it reached Crewe without any intermediate times being shown on RTT.
Some VT Voyagers were also cancelled south of Crewe.
The "Boat Train" (0910 ex Euston) seems to have been the first down train through the area, heavily delayed.
All clear now apparently.

Y Ddraig Coch · 21 Oct 2017

Thanks for the updates guys, appreciated

sd0733 · 21 Oct 2017

Not a huge amount of detail but a story here on it

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/firefighters-tackle-train-fire-caused-662593

Firefighters have tackled a train fire which caused delays on the railway throughout the morning.

Emergency services from across Cheshire were called to the blaze in Calveley, between Crewe and Chester, just after 4am.

The fire was in the diesel engine compartment of the train.

No one is reported to have been injured in the fire.

A Cheshire Fire and Rescue Service spokeswoman said two fire engines from Crewe, along with crews from Nantwich, Tarporley and Chester were called to the blaze.

She said: "At 4:03am, firefighters were called to reports of a train on fire on Station Road, Calveley....

XCTurbostar · 21 Oct 2017

sd0733 said:
Not a huge amount of detail but a story here on it

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/firefighters-tackle-train-fire-caused-662593

Nice to see that the image is accurate.. of GWEP..

PHILIPE · 21 Oct 2017

Have seen on another Forum that it was a 175 but poster was unable to provide any further details

joncombe · 21 Oct 2017

0830 Euston to Glasgow made an extra stop at Crewe for North Wales passengers. I think they were advised to change at Warrington

Y Ddraig Coch · 21 Oct 2017

joncombe said:
0830 Euston to Glasgow made an extra stop at Crewe for North Wales passengers. I think they were advised to change at Warrington

Not quite understanding ? The 08.30 according to Real time trains passed Crewe 4 late, so no extra stop obvious. Also this train stops at Warrington Bank Quay anyway so if North Wales Passengers were advised to change there (WBQ), what was an extra stop (if indeed it did stop) at Crewe needed for?

driver_m · 21 Oct 2017

It was a 175 at Calveley. On the up. Engine fire which occured before 6am this morning. That should give some of the sleuths in here enough to find out what it was. My train was altered as a direct result.

MidnightFlyer · 21 Oct 2017

Y Ddraig Coch said:
Not quite understanding ? The 08.30 according to Real time trains passed Crewe 4 late, so no extra stop obvious. Also this train stops at Warrington Bank Quay anyway so if North Wales Passengers were advised to change there (WBQ), what was an extra stop (if indeed it did stop) at Crewe needed for?

On time at Basford Hall however, so, whilst it is entirely possible to lose 4 minutes whilst passing non-stop (this is Crewe after all!), that suggests to me that a stop with very brief dwell could have been made. The call was likely to uplift those that had been planning to board the 0910 ex-Euston at Crewe for North Wales destinations.

craigybagel · 21 Oct 2017

MidnightFlyer said:
On time at Basford Hall however, so, whilst it is entirely possible to lose 4 minutes whilst passing non-stop (this is Crewe after all!), that suggests to me that a stop with very brief dwell could have been made. The call was likely to uplift those that had been planning to board the 0910 ex-Euston at Crewe for North Wales destinations.

That's exactly it, it was advertised at Crewe as the next service to Chester, with a connection at Warrington.

Crossover · 21 Oct 2017

There is a photo on a group on Facebook which shows quite a heavily scorched 175. It's a non-public group so can't link to the photos and not able to upload an image at the moment

40fan · 22 Oct 2017

The 0930 from Euston made an additional stop at Crewe to pick up passengers for Chester and north Wales. Howevr passengers who had boarded off the cancelled 0949 Crewe to Holyhead were later advised that their train had been reinstated. I was travelling to Chester this morning and it was chaos at Crewe.

I dread to think how passengers alighting from a 10 coach voyager would be conveyed from Warrington to Chester on a two coach dmu.

What I don't understand is why it took so long to re-open the line between Crewe and Chester.

83G/84D · 22 Oct 2017

Unit concerned was 175004 on an early morning Chester to Crewe empty stock working.

VauxhallandI · 22 Oct 2017

I too was on the 9:30 to Glasgow and it was all quite Benny Hill at Crewe. The BTP came on the train to herd people on only for them to make a mass exodus five mins later.

Delayed us but I get to the pub in Warrington at one minute to midday in time for opening up so no harm done

craigybagel · 22 Oct 2017

40fan said:
I dread to think how passengers alighting from a 10 coach voyager would be conveyed from Warrington to Chester on a two coach dmu.

The same way they do every hour at Crewe normally when they connect on to the shuttle at xx:23?

What I don't understand is why it took so long to re-open the line between Crewe and Chester.

Due to the nature of the damage caused to the unit concerned, in order to move it another unit had to be placed at either end. As it was a 175, it had to be other 175s to move it. To get one to the Crewe end, one had to be sent from Chester all the way via Shrewsbury and Crewe and then in the wrong direction on the Chester line to get to the failed unit. And once they did get all 3 units together, they could only go 5mph maximum back to Chester. All this at a time when ATW were already suffering from cancellations and disruption due to Storm Brian and the aftermath of Ophelia from last week.

LNW-GW Joint · 22 Oct 2017

Virgin regularly use the Middlewich diversion on through trains beyond Chester (with some cancellations) during disruption.
But eastbound trains all seemed to terminate at Chester yesterday.
Also "line blocked by broken down train" would have been better advice than "an incident".
The Chester terminating Voyagers could also have run via Warrington, or at least dropped off passengers there.

craigybagel · 22 Oct 2017

LNW-GW Joint said:
Virgin regularly use the Middlewich diversion on through trains beyond Chester (with some cancellations) during disruption.
But eastbound trains all seemed to terminate at Chester yesterday.
Also "line blocked by broken down train" would have been better advice than "an incident".
The Chester terminating Voyagers could also have run via Warrington, or at least dropped off passengers there.

AIUI, there are 4 different drivers depots at Virgin that supply drivers for Chester - Crewe, and at least 3 different TM depots. I'm pretty sure that not all of them sign either Middlewich or Warrington - Chester so it could only have worked if it had been the right combination of traincrew in place to work it.

driver_m · 22 Oct 2017

Warrington BQ - Chester has recently been taken off a lot of drivers Route cards at VT. Only Preston drivers now sign it. Middlewich is still a diversionary route though. Wolves drivers don't sign Crewe-Chester. As for TM's. It is Holyhead, Lime St, Preston and Euston who do sign it.

mikestone1952 · 22 Oct 2017

As an aside the train which appeared to be involved is shown in RTT arriving Crewe 34 early!
;
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P77783/2017/10/21/advanced
;
It has long been a mystery to me why VT maintain route knowledge via Middlewich given the speeds over the branch - going via Warrington is going to be little if any slower, and signing Warrington-Chester would also permit diversions if blocked between Crewe and Acton Grange.

QueensCurve · 22 Oct 2017

Crossover said:
There is a photo on a group on Facebook which shows quite a heavily scorched 175. It's a non-public group so can't link to the photos and not able to upload an image at the moment

Which ECS working was it.

LNW-GW Joint · 22 Oct 2017

mikestone1952 said:
As an aside the train which appeared to be involved is shown in RTT arriving Crewe 34 early!
;
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P77783/2017/10/21/advanced
;
It has long been a mystery to me why VT maintain route knowledge via Middlewich given the speeds over the branch - going via Warrington is going to be little if any slower, and signing Warrington-Chester would also permit diversions if blocked between Crewe and Acton Grange.

I think for a long time, it was the Crewe-Weaver Jn-Warrington-Wigan-Preston line that was repeatedly closed at weekends.
When NR were also working on the Chester line exit at Crewe, which seems to happen every winter, it meant that no route was available other than via Middlewich and arriving at Crewe from the east.
Some Crewe-Scotland Voyagers have been diverted via Chester in the fairly recent past (bank holidays I think, when much of the WCML seems to shut down).
The focus in the next year or so will be Weaver Jn-Liverpool for the resignalling/upgrade, so it shouldn't affect Chester services.

craigybagel · 22 Oct 2017

BurgerVan said:
Warrington BQ - Chester has recently been taken off a lot of drivers Route cards at VT. Only Preston drivers now sign it. Middlewich is still a diversionary route though. Wolves drivers don't sign Crewe-Chester. As for TM's. It is Holyhead, Lime St, Preston and Euston who do sign it.

Cheers, I knew (some) Euston drivers went to Chester but wasn't sure about their TMs.

Welshman · 22 Oct 2017

craigybagel said:
The same way they do every hour at Crewe normally when they connect on to the shuttle at xx:23?

Due to the nature of the damage caused to the unit concerned, in order to move it another unit had to be placed at either end. As it was a 175, it had to be other 175s to move it. To get one to the Crewe end, one had to be sent from Chester all the way via Shrewsbury and Crewe and then in the wrong direction on the Chester line to get to the failed unit. And once they did get all 3 units together, they could only go 5mph maximum back to Chester. All this at a time when ATW were already suffering from cancellations and disruption due to Storm Brian and the aftermath of Ophelia from last week.

Thank you for explaining that recovery operation. I had no idea it was so complicated.
They did well to find 2 175 units at Chester on a Saturday when resources were stretched.

I suppose the stock situation will be even more parlous now with another unit down.

PHILIPE · 22 Oct 2017

83G/84D said:
Unit concerned was 175004 on an early morning Chester to Crewe empty stock working.

175004 or 175005 ? No doubt the one that is calling itself 004. Why I'm asking is that the vehicles of the two are wrongly formed following storm damage last year. Following repair they just haven't bothered to reform them again after the 2 undamaged vehicles
were put together to form a good one.

40fan · 22 Oct 2017

craigybagel said:
The same way they do every hour at Crewe normally when they connect on to the shuttle at xx:23?

You missed the point. On a normal train not all passengers would alight at Warrington to travel to Chester and north Wales. On Saturday all the people off the cancelled voyager would have needed to do so.

SpacePhoenix · 22 Oct 2017

Crossover said:
There is a photo on a group on Facebook which shows quite a heavily scorched 175. It's a non-public group so can't link to the photos and not able to upload an image at the moment

Does the location of the scorch marks in the photo suggest a possible origin and/or cause of the fire?

Crossover · 23 Oct 2017

Screenshot from Facebook attached - page being Manchester Railways group. It’s not an open group, but I don’t foresee any problem with the images being on here

Y Ddraig Coch · 23 Oct 2017

That looks quite serious, does anyone know, or do any drivers / conductors know how the driver would have spotted this? Are there alarms that would warn the driver for this sort of incident?

09:10 London Euston - Holyhead: "This train has been delayed by a fire on a train"

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