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Why women do not work in railway

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Adlington

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This question is discussed in railfreight.com:
Only fifteen per cent of UK’s rail industry workforce is female. Furthermore, of all train drivers in the UK only six per cent is a woman. In Scotland, female train drivers represent only four per cent. This comes down to one single female driver.

Appropriate clothing and facilities for female proved to be another issue of concern. “Many of these women complained of a lack of female toilets in and around trains. In terms of clothing, ground staff for example pointed out that there was never a pair of gloves their size. In general, there was a perception that the industry is a male dominated world, where women are just not meant to be working.”
The article also says: "In the UK, work in the railway industry is well-paid and you get nice perks, such as train tickets for life". Do these train tickets for life still exist for new recruits?
 
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LA50041

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There are only 25 train drivers in Scotland?
I doubt that somehow
 

6Gman

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I suggest that whoever wrote that "article" doesn't have a clue!

Bring on the "Like" button. There are many reasons why many railway jobs are unattractive to women. Equally the proportion of women has climbed steadily over the years.
 

Cheggers

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Quite a few women drivers/ conductors/ Train Managers that I see on LM and Chiltern trains on my side of the line (the dark side)z
 

alxndr

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If they seriously think that a lack of small-sized gloves is a key reason women aren't joining the industry then I don't know what to say. My hands are tiny, by either gender's standards, and the thought of getting gloves (or other PPE/clothing) to fit was never a concern when applying or accepting a job. If you really want something you'll just make do, or tackle any issues as they arise.

I'm absolutely for having issues such as clothing resolved, as it could well affect retention and morale once someone's in the business. NR did come out with a range of female cut oranges, complete with pink labels, the other year, although I've no idea how popular they've been.

Toilet facilities I see being a far bigger problem, and an actual factor which could put some women off. NR are trying to implement better welfare facilities, but I can see it being a slow process, and perhaps one which doesn't really take off until more women are involved.
 

pompeyfan

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It’s not just the railway, public transport on the whole doesn’t seem to appeal to women, is it that perhaps men (in general) are more willing to do shift work etc?

I’d love more women on the railway, and I don’t mean from a letch point of view.
 

Bishopstone

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To the extent that women apply to become train drivers, what's their success rate, compared to men?
 

Darandio

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Perhaps the article refers to a single train crew depot and erroneously treats it as the whole network? Or perhaps it's just cluelessness.

Seems to be a mixture of both.

Maybe they should take a look at VTEC. I've noticed a large proportion of female drivers coupled with those that are being instructed seem to be increasingly female too. Unless I just tend to notice them more. :lol:
 

61653 HTAFC

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I suspect this will only make the figures slightly less inaccurate, but I think it's referring to just freight rather than the railway as a whole.
 

TheEdge

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Toilet facilities I see being a far bigger problem, and an actual factor which could put some women off. NR are trying to implement better welfare facilities, but I can see it being a slow process, and perhaps one which doesn't really take off until more women are involved.

Well quite, if 99% of your work gangs go out and they are all men there is barely any point in looking at female facilities. And it isn't like its an "if you build it they will come" style issue either.
 

70014IronDuke

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I suspect this will only make the figures slightly less inaccurate, but I think it's referring to just freight rather than the railway as a whole.

I think you have partially identified the problem with this story. (or at least made a glancing blow)

Apart from the free tickets for life nonsense, it is very VAGUE as to what exactly it's referring to when she quotes various numbers.

In fact, in many ways the title appears to me to be mistaken in its claims. Because the supposed surveys it quotes (again, not very clear detail) seem to quizz women WORKING in the industry (or in ill-defined sectors of the industry). So, in fact, the only questions they can really ask is: "What issues annoy you and might put you off - yet you still stick at it?" and "What are your impressions as to why many women are put off?".
When the people they should be asking are the ones that leave and the ones that don't even apply. Obviously, the latter group are a particularly difficult lot to get to answer.

THe editor (aka a journalist, I suppose) also uses some funny terms - it's clear that while she's very good at English, she's not a native speaker.

For example, she writes: "Stumbling upon these findings, the company decided to engage in a range of initiatives ... " This makes me wonder if she really understands the word "stumble" - I mean, if they've done a survey to find these things out, they are hardly stumbling on them. That's just one example.

This appears to be interesting analysis on the surface, but a little bit of critical thought and you really wonder what it is all about.
 

pompeyfan

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Seems to be a mixture of both.

Maybe they should take a look at VTEC. I've noticed a large proportion of female drivers coupled with those that are being instructed seem to be increasingly female too. Unless I just tend to notice them more. :lol:

Wasn’t long ago that a channel 5 series featured an attractive looking mid 20s year woman driving a 91, EasyJet inside the cockpit also made a feature of young female pilots.
 

Qwerty133

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Wasn’t long ago that a channel 5 series featured an attractive looking mid 20s year woman driving a 91, EasyJet inside the cockpit also made a feature of young female pilots.
Sky did the programme on EC IIRC.
Channel 5 do however seem to want to feature Jodie in every single series they do about GWR.
 

Adlington

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THe editor (aka a journalist, I suppose) also uses some funny terms - it's clear that while she's very good at English, she's not a native speaker.

For example, she writes: "Stumbling upon these findings, the company decided to engage in a range of initiatives ... " This makes me wonder if she really understands the word "stumble" - I mean, if they've done a survey to find these things out, they are hardly stumbling on them.
1. Does it matter whether she is (or isn't) a native speaker? Does it make her conclusions less (or more) valid?
2. Reading a random selection of posts here, I doubt what percentage of posters are native speakers :)
 

jon0844

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GTR seem to have a lot of female drivers and lots of station staff (platform and ticket office). That said, I'm sure as a percentage when it comes to drivers it will still be far short of 50%.

The only thing that matters isn't what percentage of women there are, but how women are treated and that they're afforded the exact same opportunities as men. As long as a woman applying for the role of driver is capable, they should become a driver and be treated the same (which I hope is what happens). And if that is happening then IMO it isn't a problem what the percentage is. You can't make anyone go for any particular job if they don't want it, and we mustn't let anyone start talking about positive discrimination.

What you need to make sure of is that if someone wants to become a driver, they can - subject to the assessments, medicals etc.

If women are being treated unfairly or discouraged from certain roles, that's what you tackle. But it isn't necessarily a sexy thing to say in a story, especially now you can write articles to enrage people and get pageviews etc.

Toilet facilities and how you treat women who go on maternity leave etc are all pretty obvious and essential things for any employer. It matters not whether it's the railway, construction or whatever.
 

FGW_DID

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Perhaps the author would like to visit my wife’s primary school where every teacher, teaching assistant and support staff is female and ask why males aren’t becoming Primary School teachers / TAs etc.
(I know there are some out there so please, we don’t need a list of every school that has one!).

But then again that probably wouldn’t fit with her ‘axe-grinding’ agenda!
 

deltic

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Massive Imbalances between genders in most jobs is usually an indication of something wrong. in the past many jobs in the railways required considerable physical effort which was one reason why few women were employed. It was also an industry that recruited 'on the grapevine' and seniority was based on time served all factors that made it hard for 'outsiders' including women to break into and progress. Most of that has changed in the last few decades and some operators such as TfL have actively advertised posts in women's magazines etc. Don't know what percentage of women bus drivers there are in London now but it must be quite high and a high proportion of TfL staff, except at the very top are female.

I don't think other rail companies have been so active in trying to improve diversity of their workforce as TfL but it is interesting that HS2 employs a high proportion of women although it has recently lost 2 of its female directors, Alison Munro and Beth West.

A rail industry that employs far more women would be a much better one.

As for lack of male primary school teachers that is frequently flagged up as a cause of concern.
 

superhands

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There's lots of women on the railway from Head office, Station staff, support staff Managment, Traincrew and Directors.
Loads on Heathrow Express and like a poster said before the tube even a few freight drivers.
I would think the intercity toc have more front line women staff.
 

Llanigraham

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I note that most of the replies seem to be on the TOC side.
There are certainly females working in the signalling grades, and as Level Crossing Managers,and I understand as MOM's and there seem to be plenty of women engineers on the Engineering side.
The railway doesn't just include the train companies!!
 
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nom de guerre

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At my place, we have three female signallers out of 28. I also regularly encounter female OMs, LOMs, controllers, YMCs, drivers (depot and mainline), platform staff - and delay clerks!

Station grades seem to be the most gender-balanced at present.
 

70014IronDuke

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1. Does it matter whether she is (or isn't) a native speaker? Does it make her conclusions less (or more) valid?
2. Reading a random selection of posts here, I doubt what percentage of posters are native speakers :)

1) In and of itself, no. I expect she can write better English than many native speakers. But she is meant to be a professional hack*- yet there are clues in the text that she is not really up to that standard. And I suspect she does not have a second editor (which even native speakers need). Hence, seeing these weaknesses, you wonder how strong/accurate the essence of what she's supposed to be writing really is. Not helped by the "train tickets for life" guff either :)
* Judging from the shoddy journalism we see many times in the UK and highlighted frequently on this group, she is probably no worse than average of course.
2) I think I know what you mean.
 

otomous

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At my TOC women have to come off track as soon as they know they are pregnant - which is hugely disruptive to their career as they pretty much have to start again when they return to the footplate in terms of refreshing routes etc. I don't know what the answer is to this.

But I would say the toilet arrangements are hugely unfriendly to women. Either no toilet or not enough toilets in most locations where we turn round, often very poor condition, no hot water or soap guaranteed, not enough time given to reach a toilet, too long in a cab without access to a toilet. Can't rely on train toilets as they may be non-existent, in use, or out of service. Without drawing diagrams, men can manage, even though they should not be expected to in this day and age, but this is not great for women. Yet again it comes down to a willingness to invest in the facilities and the time to use them with the knock on effect on rosters, driver numbers etc.
 

Cavan

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Female ground staff/shunters and the gloves issue sound anecdotal. If work are not providing ppe then you simply ask for it? No ppe, no work!
 

Cavan

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"either no toilet or not enough toilets in most locations where we turn round, often very poor condition, no hot water or soap guaranteed"

This is not acceptable for any worker - male or female. Not sure where you work but in places I have been the rail unions are hot on raising issues of unacceptable toilet and washing/shower facilities.
 

talltim

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I think the grammar of the article title is a giveaway to the language issue. Although, to be fair, it is written by a Dutch lady on a Dutch website...
 

Bellbell

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Perhaps the author would like to visit my wife’s primary school where every teacher, teaching assistant and support staff is female and ask why males aren’t becoming Primary School teachers / TAs etc.
(I know there are some out there so please, we don’t need a list of every school that has one!).

But then again that probably wouldn’t fit with her ‘axe-grinding’ agenda!

Why would railfreight.com have an article about about primary school teachers? It's not axe-grinding to raise a gender disparity. You rightly raised the issue of significant under representation of men in teaching posts, particularly at primary level. That's not axe-grinding either.

When the public react to train crew pay discussions with 'what about nurses etc' we tend to respond that the fact that they are underpaid doesn't mean we can't fight for a pay rise. It's not too dissimilar a thing here - the fact that men are underrepresented in primary schools doesn't mean it's ok for women to be underrepresented on the railway.
 
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