GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

smiffy9373 · 27 Oct 2017

To me it shows just how detached the dft are from the real world. Sure it makes good PR that the train has more seats. Unfortunately, the reality is that people don't sit in the middle of the 3 seats as it's too cosy with the people either side so they prefer to stand, therefore there is no increase in seats used. Better to have 2+2 seats with an armrest in between (as on a 150/2)and all seats used with more room for standees in my opinion.

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Dai Corner · 27 Oct 2017

It's the old old problem of Cardiff-Portsmouth trying to be both a local and an Intercity service.

What they should do is refurb the 166s with 2+2 seating, power sockets, reservation system, good aircon, space for the catering trolley and whatever else. A quick spruce up for the 165 's.

Run 165/166 combos but only release the doors on the 166 at city stations; Cardiff, Newport, Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Salisbury, Southampton and Portsmouth. Reservations would only be available in the 166.

Intercity passengers get an improved ambience and facilities, local ones more seats as long as they don't mind squashing up a bit at busy times.

What could possibly go wrong?

WelshBluebird · 27 Oct 2017

Dai Corner said:
local ones more seats as long as they don't mind squashing up a bit at busy times.

Well except that isn't true in my experience. People will rather stand on the 150's that have 3+2 seating than sit in the middle seat for the short trips like Keynsham to Bristol etc.

Dai Corner · 27 Oct 2017

My tongue was very much in my cheek @WelshBluebird

TT-ONR-NRN · 27 Oct 2017

Dai Corner said:
It's the old old problem of Cardiff-Portsmouth trying to be both a local and an Intercity service.

What they should do is refurb the 166s with 2+2 seating, power sockets, reservation system, good aircon, space for the catering trolley and whatever else. A quick spruce up for the 165 's.

Run 165/166 combos but only release the doors on the 166 at city stations; Cardiff, Newport, Bristol Temple Meads, Bath Spa, Salisbury, Southampton and Portsmouth. Reservations would only be available in the 166.

Intercity passengers get an improved ambience and facilities, local ones more seats as long as they don't mind squashing up a bit at busy times.

What could possibly go wrong?

The fact that if you are travelling to or from Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Romsey, Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Filton Abbey Wood or Severn Tunnel Junction you will only be able to travel in a 3x2 Two car 165 with no (or rubbish) air conditioning, no reservations, no refreshments, no first class, no wheelchair toilet. Imagine if you were travelling from say Cosham to Cardiff, a five hour journey. You wouldn’t like it, I’m sure.

Just because you get on a train at a smaller station doesn’t mean you only take commuter journeys.

Dai Corner · 27 Oct 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
The fact that if you are travelling to or from Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Romsey, Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Filton Abbey Wood or Severn Tunnel Junction you will only be able to travel in a 3x2 Two car 165 with no (or rubbish) air conditioning, no reservations, no refreshments, no first class, no wheelchair toilet. Imagine if you were travelling from say Cosham to Cardiff, a five hour journey. You wouldn’t like it, I’m sure.

Just because you get on a train at a smaller station doesn’t mean you only take commuter journeys.

If you were travelling, say, Cosham to Cardiff you could change into the 166 at Southampton.

But my suggestion wasn't a serious one

Kite159 · 27 Oct 2017

50031 said:
Surely if re-seating the 166s is part of the franchise agreement, then GWR can insist on it going ahead? And it seems utterly ridiculous that Exeter bound 150/2s have a 2+2 seating with some tables, whilst "flagship" Portsmouth and other services have unaltered 3+2 seating with no tables at all! If the dft refuse, then, apart from lack of aircon, I would rather travel on a 153!

They have some tables in the former 1st class areas behind the cabs, plus some units having a small selection of tiny tables on narrow 2+2 seating in the centre coaches. Expect those seats to go first with them who want to do actual work when travelling from Warminster to Filton Abbey Wood on MOD business.

CC 72100 · 27 Oct 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
The fact that if you are travelling to or from Fratton, Cosham, Fareham, Romsey, Warminster, Westbury, Trowbridge, Bradford on Avon, Avoncliff, Freshford, Filton Abbey Wood or Severn Tunnel Junction you will only be able to travel in a 3x2 Two car 165 with no (or rubbish) air conditioning, no reservations, no refreshments, no first class, no wheelchair toilet. Imagine if you were travelling from say Cosham to Cardiff, a five hour journey. You wouldn’t like it, I’m sure.

Just because you get on a train at a smaller station doesn’t mean you only take commuter journeys.

There is no first class on these services anyway.

The end to end journey is not even 4 hours, let alone 5.

There is no great market from Avoncliff to Cardiff.

You don't really know what you're on about really.

D2007wsm · 28 Oct 2017

CC 72100 said:
There is no first class on these services anyway.

The end to end journey is not even 4 hours, let alone 5.

There is no great market from Avoncliff to Cardiff.

You don't really know what you're on about really.

If any of the HST trailers end up being scrapped, could the seats not be stripped to put into the longer distance DMUs? They would be good for classes 158/166. Just change the ears to white and reuphhulster/repad into grey and green. This wouldn't be undoable as other operators have these seats in 158s.

The three seat bench which needs to be retained in the 166s could have a luggage rack placed over it.

Envoy · 28 Oct 2017

Are they really retaining the 3 seat bench? I thought that they would have put in 2 + 2 seating?

pompeyfan · 28 Oct 2017

Envoy said:
Are they really retaining the 3 seat bench? I thought that they would have put in 2 + 2 seating?

It was mentioned earlier that in each carriage a engine cooling headed tank protrudes into the gangway, so a bench would be necessary.

swt_passenger · 28 Oct 2017

Clarence Yard said:
The latest I've heard is that the DfT have canned the 166 reseating (on grounds of loss of seats) and that they will remain as is. But discussions are on going as the whole Turbo fleet is overdue for an interior refurb.

Perhaps someone could remind DfT that seat reduction was considered OK for neighbours SWR on another significant Portsmouth route? DfT had supposedly insisted for some it years needed 12 car 450s with 2+3 to meet the capacity required?

D1009 · 28 Oct 2017

I think it's wrong to suggest that in a 2+3 seated coach of whatever class the middle seat will always be empty. Many people stand if they can't get a seat next to their companion. If 2 seats out of a 3 become available, the middle seat will be used. Individuals however will avoid them because they don't want to sit between two strangers.

jimm · 28 Oct 2017

D1009 said:
I think it's wrong to suggest that in a 2+3 seated coach of whatever class the middle seat will always be empty.

They certainly aren't empty on peak services in and out of Paddington but since the seats do not make any allowance whatever for the human body coming fitted with arms, they are bloody uncomfortable for three average-sized people to squeeze into and people will not do it unless they have no choice.

FGW recognised that the layout in Turbos was not suitable for the longer-distance journeys they work a long time ago, but a plan to acquire more dmus for services out of Paddington - most likely a four-car Turbostar type design for Oxford/Cotswold services and probably Newbury/Bedwyn too, with 2+2 seats and plenty of tables - was scuppered by the DfT suddenly deciding in 2009 that electrification was the way to go.

Not replacing the seats would be a pretty daft decision by DafT but after 25 years, it really is getting to the point where some thought was given to giving the Turbo interiors a makeover. As for loss of seats, they seemed quite happy for LM to get rid of 150s with 3+2 seats and bring in 172s with 2+2 seats and lots of standing space for the Birmingham peaks...

iantherev · 28 Oct 2017

Those advocating reseating of the 166s be very careful what you wish for. It would be ironic if the current seats were replaced by Fainsa ironing boards.

patstonuk · 28 Oct 2017

How very odd all this fuss about 3+2 seating sounds to someone who travelled every day in 6-a-side compartment stock, then various incarnations of BR EMUs culminating in 4-VEPs.
What's the problem, too many fat/loud/smelly people travelling these days? The only issue with the old stuff was having enough elbow room to turn the pages of your newspaper.

Quickthorn · 29 Oct 2017

patstonuk said:
How very odd all this fuss about 3+2 seating sounds to someone who travelled every day in 6-a-side compartment stock, then various incarnations of BR EMUs culminating in 4-VEPs.
What's the problem, too many fat/loud/smelly people travelling these days? The only issue with the old stuff was having enough elbow room to turn the pages of your newspaper.

6 a side? You were lucky!

When I were a lad etc etc.

superalbs · 30 Oct 2017

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V12081/2017/10/30/advanced

Looks like a Turbo working to Cardiff Central in passenger service if I'm not mistaken.

Parallel · 30 Oct 2017

CC 72100 said:
There is no great market from Avoncliff to Cardiff.

To be honest, there aren't many trains that call at Avoncliff to/from Cardiff anyway.
--
The people from the medium sized towns deserve better though. I know it wasn't a serious suggestion but forcing them all in one part of a train really wouldn't go down well. (Westbury, Trowbridge and Bradford can fill up a three car train on their own in the peaks)

trolleyman · 30 Oct 2017

superalbs said:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V12081/2017/10/30/advanced
View attachment 36154

Looks like a Turbo working to Cardiff Central in passenger service if I'm not mistaken.

166210!!

turbodeas · 2 Nov 2017

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies regarding the 2+3 seating - interesting that it has not been confirmed either way. I really do hope the 166/165 fleet gets a proper internal refurb and reseat before being put in to squadron service on the Cardiff to Portsmouth service!

Out of interest, which other duties are the 166's working at present, in the Bristol area? I'm travelling on 2U08 - WSM - CDF soon, is this likely to be a Turbo?

PHILIPE · 2 Nov 2017

turbodeas said:
Hi All,

Thanks for the replies regarding the 2+3 seating - interesting that it has not been confirmed either way. I really do hope the 166/165 fleet gets a proper internal refurb and reseat before being put in to squadron service on the Cardiff to Portsmouth service!

Out of interest, which other duties are the 166's working at present, in the Bristol area? I'm travelling on 2U08 - WSM - CDF soon, is this likely to be a Turbo?

2U08 is not a Turbo yet. Not sure of date either yet. There are 2 working Weston Super Mare to Bristol Parkway shuttles this week, at least, under STP arrangements. 2 have been working the Severn Beach Branch since July.

turbodeas · 2 Nov 2017

PHILIPE said:
2U08 is not a Turbo yet. Not sure of date either yet. There are 2 working Weston Super Mare to Bristol Parkway shuttles this week, at least, under STP arrangements. 2 have been working the Severn Beach Branch since July.

Thanks for this information, very helpful.

PHILIPE · 4 Nov 2017

166210 working on Cardiff to Tauntons today. Trains running with Class 9 Headcodes.

9U04 0721 Bristol Temple Meads to Cardiff Central
9C69 0900 Cardiff Central to Taunton
9U14 1104 Taunton to Cardiff Central
9C79 1400 Cardiff Central to Taunton
9U24 1607 Taunton to Cardiff Central
9C89 1900 Cardiff Central to Taunton‎
2M72 2135 Taunton to Bristol Temple Meads (not shewn as Class 9)

Wilts Wanderer · 4 Nov 2017

Presumably running as Class 9 is due to a gauging restriction somewhere between Patchway and Cardiff?

PHILIPE · 4 Nov 2017

Wilts Wanderer said:
Presumably running as Class 9 is due to a gauging restriction somewhere between Patchway and Cardiff?

The fact that 2M72 2135 Taunton to Bristol TM (only) is not shewn as a Class 9 would bear this out. When they worked to Cardiff earlier this week there were tests being conducted through the Severn Tunnel so perhaps only 99.9% cleared yet through the tunnel.

Wilts Wanderer · 4 Nov 2017

I would be surprised if it's the tunnel itself. I thought Class 9 was meant to flag up to the signallers that a particular line / platform cannot be used at all? Class 153s have a similar issue in a platform at Salisbury and therefore run under class 9.

JN114 · 4 Nov 2017

Routing restrictions in the Newport area.

JohnRegular · 4 Nov 2017

CC 72100 said:
There is no first class on these services anyway.

The end to end journey is not even 4 hours, let alone 5.

There is no great market from Avoncliff to Cardiff.

You don't really know what you're on about really.

He may not know what he's on about, but the market to Bristol and Cardiff from stations like Fareham and Romsey is certainly non-zero. I quite often do Fareham-Bristol, and I'm certainly glad for the comfy seating in the (unrefurbished) 158s. Being forced into 3+2 seating for a journey of that length would be offputting to say the least, especially since these services seem so prone to delay.

But I think most customers, certainly myself, would just be glad for longer trains to start working the route. They are routinely packed even in the off peak.

Brian Aylott · 4 Nov 2017

I am completely confused regarding which 166s are now allocated to SPM
Please could someone please supply the numbers
Thank you
Brian

GWR Turbo cascade progress to Bristol region services

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